To think mothers are the most judgemental of other mothers?

[antelopevalley]

And to feel sad this is the case, Most (I am not naive I know not all), mothers are doing a good enough job and their children are fine. So why do so many mothers criticise what are fairly minor things over a childhood?

Who cares if you do baby-led weaning or spoon-feeding. Or if you toilet train using chocolate buttons (my top toilet training tip). Or if you dress young kids in fashionable clothes or more classic clothes.

There are so many things that mothers judge each other on that really do not matter. Do what works for you and your child. Save judgement for neglect and abuse and report it. Not for simply making different decisions about everyday things.

And my title is because I find other people don't care about these things at all or very much. It is other mothers who do and who judge.

I think it depends, I don't feel judgement at all but then I have deep confidence in what I'm doing so if someone did pass comment I'd tell them to bog off! 🤣 I think that there are just the "right" way to do things. Obviously I don't always do the "right" thing, but I trust wholeheartedly mine and my partner's judgement with things

No. I judged parents WAAAY harder when I was childless. I knew what my parents did wrong with us so I thought I had enough insight to be a superior super parent. God, I was awfully judgmental.
Becoming a mother has humbled me, taught me to be kinder and more patient. It's been very hard. There is nothing like living the experience yourself.

Coming from the perspective of a dad here (because I am one). I have to say I definitely notice this a fair bit. I don't understand why this happens exactly, although 'mum-upmanship' could be one explanation. You do see it in other areas as well: for example on holidays before children, DW used to love judging other women's bodies at the beach. Even the fairly normal bodies seemed to draw criticism, although she never, ever said anything about the men: even men with huge guts who nonetheless insisted on wearing speedos.

Dads, of course, come with many other undesirable characteristics, although i've never seen this particular one play out. If anything we tend to be reasonably understanding of each other's child-related problems. Supportive may be going a bit far, but we don't judge like some women do.

I saw Dads being judgy and competitive, usually with money, sports and holidays.

Personally I find a lot of the older generation are incredibly quick to judge, often regardless of the closeness of their relationship to the Mum where you might expect a degree of restraint and kindness. I’ve had unwanted unwelcome comments from parents in law, older aunts, and completely random strangers on the street and in the supermarket. Oooh we never did that in my day…….. 🫤

Women love a stick with which to beat other women with.

Agree and there’s a few examples on this thread already. The biggest one that bugs me on MN is the vehemence about screens in a cafe. I basically have been repeatedly told on MN that I’m a lazy parent because my toddler watched 30 mins of octonauts on my phone (on silent) whilst I gave my friend my full attention as she’d just found out her husband had an affair and needed to talk. 30 mins of screen time in a cafe once a month was unacceptable according to many threads here. But it’s ok if it was at home. Even tho it wasn’t disturbing other diners (on silent, on her lap so no one could see the screen). Fucking makes no sense and pathetic.

I don't judge other mothers for everything but I do some things. If you feed your kids processed crap all day I judge you.

If they run around in restaurants/ shopping centres etc because you can't be arsed to discipline them I judge you.

If you plonk your kid in front of a screen while having a meal so you don't have to entertain them or interact I judge you.

But I'm sure they all have some sort of special needs or mum has a good excuse. Maybe a couple will but most are lazy fuckers that can't be bothered parenting.

I actually think some of the most judgemental people I've encountered are other women without children.

I have an old (child-free) friend who can't resist making comments about how I parent my 11 year old. I find the lack of self-awareness extremely difficult to take from someone who has literally no parenting experience whatsoever.

See I find it goes:-

• most bitchy - women who had small children over 20 years ago
• quite critical - older men
• middling - women who are yet to become parents (but want to at some point)
• interested in a "might I be a bit of a better parent?" way - existing mothers to small dc
• couldn't care less what you do - women who want to remain child free, men under 40

@Brunilde you are exactly my point. You would have judged me if you’d seen my toddler on my phone in a cage. But it’s bonkers. It doesn’t make sense.

for example if I said “I had an afternoon watching Xmas films with my toddler on the sofa” - nobody would judge. Despite possibly 3 hours ish of screen time. there’s no evidence here of more interaction or benefit for the child - eg I could be doing chores whilst she’s plonked in front of the tv or sitting next to her scrolling on my phone. For example.

if I have a coffee in a cafe with my toddler having a screen. I get judged. For less screen time, maybe 30-40 mins. But somehow im now a lazy parent? Even tho my toddler would have been out and about before and after at park or similar? It makes absolutely zero sense and is absolutely pathetic. It really irritates me as we don’t really watch tv at home, so toddler might get 30 mins once a week or less when I’m out but that’s not acceptable. But 1-2 hours in front of the tv whilst mum does chores is?!

In a cafe!!! Not a cage 🤣

I don't know, in real life my mum group friends are wonderful. Supportive, helpful, honest and non-judgemental. They've been brilliant for me on mat leave. That's not to say I've not encountered the judgy-pants brigade but I'm quite a confident person and its water off a ducks back for me. For me not being judgemental is a point of principle. Unless it strays into abuse or neglect other people's parenting is their business and I consider my role in their lives is only to be as helpful and supportive as I can. Kids are individuals and there is no one size fits all.

I think people are much judgier online than in real life because I have a suspicion that forums tend to attract a lot of unhappier, less sociable and less pleasant people. I find it disappointing since young mums come to places like this for community, advice and support and instead can get, well, dickheads. I'm laughing that some have already come on this thread. They can't help themselves!

(Also the idea that dads are less competitive and judgemental is hilarious. C'mon now)

I think it's all based in nature: "bad parenting" could ultimately result in the species dying out, so judginess is there to ensure mothers (both parents nowadays) tow/toe (?) the line. Obviously nowadays, in Britain, children can get cold and generally warm up easily, stupid behaviour is often easily fixed in a hospital. Whereas before the above could very easily result in death so needed to be frowned on, consistently. Similarly, men being judged for lack of sporting ability (as referenced by a male PP) all stems from sporting ability being vital for catching meat.

@Cinnabomb I said there are a few exception. Obviously in your case you would fall into that. Yes I wouldn't know and would probably judge silently, but you'd never know so it wouldn't make any difference at all. I keep my thoughts to myself and don't throw dirty looks at anyone.

But I think we all know there are a large number of parents who do throw a screen in front of their kids at every opportunity because they can't be arsed. And yes it makes my life harder because I have to explain to a 3 year old that he can't have a tablet at the dinner table and can't run around a restaurant getting in the way when other kids are. So whilst none of my business it does affect me.

Oh please, let's not pretend there is a genetic imperative for survival when it comes to judginess that isn't more simply explained by the jolt of dopamine which is experienced when you consider yourself better than someone else.

Your wife doesn't sound very pleasant tbh

I find the worst are people who had children thirty or forty years ago - long enough to forget the inconvenient mistakes but recently enough to remember everything they did right and tell you.

Also childfree people who really should be having children because they seem, on listening to them, to be the only people safe to have children and not bring them up as grabby narcissists.

I'd like to think we're not all like that she you just got a wrong un. Maybe she was worried you would admire them if she didn't point out the flaws. No woman I know talks like that.

Absolutely. In previous generations children were seen as mini adults and fended for themselves. Then childhood was recognised but clothing and feeding them was enough. Then came the psychologists/psychiatrists, who had fundamental religious backgrounds and liked to blame Mothers for everything. They needed to sell parenting books and not hold men responsible for their own behaviour. Women have been pitted against each other and taught to police each other. It was an easy form of control. If girls got pregnant families were convinced in giving them up to the Catholic laundries etc. If women were promiscuous, other women would shun them etc. Housekeeping standards were set by other women. Most orangutan lose their first baby through neglect/giving the baby to others etc. Judging is in no way part inherent.

Women are extremely competitive with other women in general TBH. It starts early too - I first noticed it at school around the age of 12.

It's sad but I don't think we'll ever 'evolve' out of it as a society, because I don't believe it's 'learned' sociological behaviour, it seems to be a natural biological instinct that appears from puberty.

Some things do matter.
Some dont.

I care how teenagers turn out.
It isnt by pure accident how they are, and how they are in adulthood.

Having said all that, I didnt say my thoughts that often.

I found much more judgement online than IRL. The mums I met when my kids were little tended to judge themselves more harshly than other parents.

@Cinnabomb I often needed to be on my phone as I was running a business around my children.
Then there were times we'd been in all day, or out all day and that sit down with a cup of coffee and half an hour with some adult company - a friend who may have been sitting with me or may have been in my phone kept me going.

Sod the parents who didn't want to let their kids have a tablet. That's their decision. There are many reasons other parents seem to think our decisions affect them and their children,. I had glares from parents many a time because my kids were getting soaked to the skin in a muddy puddle having a brilliant old time and they didn't want their kids to do the same for whatever reason.

As pp it's largely driven by insecurity & anxiety so they have to put others down to feel more confident in the path/decisions they took.