To think controlled crying is cruel

[KazMa]

DH would like to try controlled crying/sleep training but I am totally against any sort of crying/leaving DS on his own upset. Any advice?

Here is current scenario:

DS just turned 7 months old and we have been co sleeping since the dreaded 4 month sleep regression, he also breastfeeds to sleep - will go to sleep without it but needs a lot of patting, rocking and walking around so it’s easier just to BF.

For a month now I am able to BF to sleep and then leave him in his cot in his own room for nap times and he will sleep 45mins to an hour per nap (3x per day).

At night however he will wake up and only go back to sleep if he is laying & feeding next to me in my bed. (Eg, bedtime at 8pm but he’ll wake at 8:45 and won’t go back to sleep.

She isn't having a disrupted nights sleep because I come and help her get back to sleep when she wakes up. If she learned how to fall back asleep by herself she would be waking up and then putting herself back to sleep. It would take the same amount of time.
Personally, on nights when she sleeps through I still wake up once or twice anyway

I agree with all of this.

But also the reverse. When I was struggling with insomnia because DD slept so badly my GP said to come back when I had done controlled crying and otherwise she couldn't/ wouldn't help. This is something I, personally, did not want to do and the very thought of it was extremely upsetting to me at the time. It was really unhelpful and basically her saying you've made your bed so lie in it at a time I was suffering from a lot of anxiety and really needed some help.

Yep. The response to people who didn't sleep train whose children sleep poorly is often "it's your own fault because you didn't sleep train" like people are saying to me right now.

That's because both you and her have got into a pattern of disrupted nights. How do you anticipate this resolving itself ?

I'll wager £100 that @minimarshmallowsmore 's daughter won't be waking for a song at 16 ;)

She slept through the night pretty reliably from the age of 2 and started waking again when we moved house a few months ago. I know she'll be able to do it herself when she feels more safe and secure. I figure the way to get her to feel more safe and secure is to make her know she's safe and secure because I'm always there for her. It would be counterproductive to do the opposite.

I sleep trained my oldest because, to put it bluntly, I was knackered. He kept waking often every single night. After he started sleeping well so did I. My second slept from day 1,10-4 every night, a quick feed and back to sleep. The difference in my health was amazing. I could actually awake feeling refreshed. Despite having ASD he has always slept well, he did however walk at 7 months and talked early too, perhaps he started to wear himself out.

I'm genuinely sorry that happened to you when you were so vulnerable. What a horrible situation. A lot of GPs are still not understanding and empathetic when it comes to mental health and wellbeing, particularly when dealing with mothers. I'm a great advocate in doing what's right for you and sleep training is not for everyone - I couldn't do ferber, for example. I would never say those who can't sleep train deserve chronic sleep deprivation, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. My point was really more about those who try to guilt and shame parents who do. Those are the people I have no time for. I hope things have improved now? x

I agree totally. As we can see from this thread the judgement works both ways.

Yes, my daughter is 9 now and slept through since she was 2 (no sleep trianing, I didn't have the heart for it), getting gradually better. I still suffer from insomnia occassionally though. I am out the other side so feel a lot less emotionally invested - I can see objectively it doesn't harm babies and that in some instances it does a lot of good. I don't however think it always works, nor the parents should be scoffed at for not wanting to do it.

I felt my babies' cries . I found it very difficutl to listen to, especailly for my DD who was my first and who had a rough start, almost painful. I am not saying that as some kind of "I am such an earth mother and more bonded to my baby than everyone else" statement, but it was how it was for me. In hindsight I obviously also suffered from some kind of post natal anxiety which contributed, and with my second I was a lot more relaxed about his crying. I still didn't sleep train him though, it wasn't for me, and that's also a valid choice and doesn't make me neglectful (as others on this post are suggesting). Just as sleep training when you do need to doesn't make you cruel (IMO).

Instead of imagining it from the viewpoint that the distressed baby is learning that no one comes when they cry, think of it more as the baby learning that infact, nothing bad happens to them when they are left alone at night in a safe, warm cot and that it's ok to drift back off to sleep by themselves?

I followed Gina Fords book, The Contented Little Baby, to the letter and the suggested routines and guidance on controlled crying were amazing. My first slept through at 6 weeks and my second at 10 weeks. Not once have they slept in my bed nor have I ever had a problem with getting them to bed/sleep because a routine was defined and established at an early age. There is nothing wrong with controlled crying if the baby is fed, clean and safe. It’s about breaking a habit of crying for attention, babies need to learn to self sooth and get back to sleep independently from cuddling or being fed.
I appreciate Gina Ford isn’t for everyone, but for my DH and I it gave us our sanity and we have only had positive sleep experiences with our children who are now late teens.

I think there's a lot of misinformation out there aswell.
Especially before you have children, it seems so easy when people say "you put them down to nap" but the reality is that a lot of babies, especially when they are first born, so not want to be separated from their mothers/fathers and will cry when put down. That is normal infant sleep, they are not used to the world and only know a parent and the comfort.
I think of that is talked about more then it would make it easier on parent when their babies cry after being separated.
Normal infant sleep is not talked about enough and it puts a lot of pressure on parents to get their babies to sleep like adults way before they are ready to.
I'm not pro sleep training but I understand why parents do it. I've been through rough times of sleep with my DD and it is the pits but it's always been a phase.
There are so many developmental things happening within the first couple of years. Most babies/toddlers will figure out how to fall asleep on their own eventually. They all know how to sleep, it's the faking asleep and getting back to sleep that a lot struggle with and that is just normal for babies

There are lots of ways of making a child feel safe and secure while also equipping her with the skills to get back to sleep herself.

Children change all the time and new things crop up but sometimes it's easy to unwittingly instil a habit. I'd say that if she in fact DID sleep right through between the ages of 2 and 4 , then what she has now is a habit rather than a need.

She got out of the "habit" all by herself when she was 2, and I was breastfeeding her back to sleep at every wake up back then. She learned to sort herself out without me withdrawing my attention from her and I have faith she'll do that again in time.
And what's being suggested on here, is putting her back into bed repeatedly and walking away until she gets the message, which is not a way of making her feel safe and secure, and would teach her no skills.

The habit I was referring to is the current one.

And well it would teach her that nighttime is for sleeping. You're still tending to her needs but also helping her to get out of the habit of disrupted sleep.

What I'm saying isn't really earth shattering. It is pretty standard tbh.

The message being given is that it's normal to wake up twice a night and to sing!

Why on earth would you do this?

If my DH and one of the DC started singing in the middle of the night waking everyone up they would get sharp words from me!

A few words of reassurance and then time to go back to sleep is all that's needed.

Lots of kids would enjoy waking up in the middle of the night and singing with their mum. She will stop it eventually, but it could take years.

I'll just point out that there is somewhere between engaging in singing at night and letting a child cry....

I guarantee, if this thread had happened two years ago and I had said I have a 2 year old who I breastfeed to sleep every time she wakes up, I would have been told she doesn't need that and it's a habit she will never break if I don't night wean her. She did get out of that "habit" all by herself, is my point, and I think she will be able to get out of this one when she's ready.
Putting her back into bed and walking away and telling her to be quiet is not tending to her needs. How would that tend to her needs? "It would teach her that nighttime is for sleeping" - I teach her that nighttime is for sleeping by helping her get back to sleep the best way I know how. That places a strong emphasis on the importance of sleep. It's not like we get up and play. If I started physically placing her back in bed, leaving the room, doing it again, over and over, telling her she has to sleep and I won't stay with her, until she gives up and sobs herself to sleep, that would be teaching her that nighttime is for physical battles, crying and misery. I've witnessed that process on Supernanny, it was absolutely horrible and I would never do it to my own child.

People here are saying that she wakes me up singing and I go and sing with her? That's not what happens. She calls me and I tuck her in and then she asks for a lullaby and I sing one. Which is also not earth shattering stuff, singing a lullaby to a child.

I'm not talking about being nasty so that they sob and sob just quietly telling them it's time to sleep.
She's four and still waking up in the night , which will make her tired despite what you say.

Still it's you that has to do it, I'll be getting a full night's sleep !

Yes it called normal parenting 😉
Apparently not a thing on MN!

Well I try that sometimes and it doesn't work. If I don't feel like singing I'll say no I'll just sit here with you until you sleep. Then she will stay awake for an hour. Singing is the best way right now. You're concerned about the amount of sleep she's getting, if I sing that helps her get more sleep. I suppose I could hold firm with that and wean her off singing onto me just sitting next to her, I'd do that if I had the motivation, but generally I'm happy to sing so what's the problem?

@minimarshmallowsmore
No one is saying she will never break the habit. She obviously was going to give up breastfeeding to sleep at some point, and she will not be waking up and singing with you when she is 20. But it may take a long time.

There's no problem if you want to do it. But strange to be advocating your approach as any sort of better alternative to sleep training.

Sorry just seen this, no he wasn't a newborn, community midwife is probably the wrong term, it was over 30 years ago in Australia, she was part of the baby health centre (that's probably the wrong term too!) he was around 6 months and suggested by nurse at a checkup