Doctor refused to see 3yo with suspected scarlet fever

[Phyllisdoriss]

My 3yo presented scarlet fever symptoms Sunday morning. Classic temperature, sandpaper rash, strawberry tongue so almost certain scarlet fever.
Phoned 111 at 10.30, get through around 12. Was told a clinician would call back within 2 hrs but very busy so could be longer.
Get a call around 3.45. Not the clinician but someone checking in. Clinician phoned around 7pm, really lovely lady who said she would make a referral to GP and that they will be ‘duty bound’ to see DC next day (today). DC was comfortable and settled down to sleep so she didn’t want to send us anywhere through the night, could end up being really late. We have a baby too.
This morning I phone GP first thing to book appointment. They acknowledged the referral from 111 and tell me a doctor will be in touch.

3.35pm my GP surgery phone to offer an appointment at a surgery 30mins (on a good day) away for 4pm. I said that would be impossible, so they offered 4.30 and that is the latest they can do. I accept the appointment but think it’ll be a tall order to get 2 toddlers, one quite unwell, in the car and there for 4.30 through two busy towns at rush hour but I was going to try my hardest. We got to the desk at 4.36 a flustered mess (I’m never late and hate being late)

They refused to see DC as we had ‘missed’ the appointment. I said they were duty bound to see her which they said they would but we could be waiting a while. As I’d had to rush everyone out of the door I’d not packed and snacks/toys so the thought of a long wait was not ideal but no choice.

At around 6pm a lady comes to tell us that they would not see her today. I said you’re duty bound to see DC today and she rudely responded with “you missed your appointment” and other remarks like “other patents managed to get here on time”. Yes but have other patients traveled as far, with such short notice, alone with two very young children?
Poor DC was even trying to show them crying saying “but look, I’ve got a nasty rash”.
AIBU to think this is truly appalling.

I don't think it was unreasonable to expect you to reach the surgery in 45 minutes given that it's presumably less than 5 miles away

..and there's another who hasn't read the OP's posts. 30 minutes (minimum) drive, out of area surgery, had to drive through two busy towns at rush hour. All in the first few posts.

Oh I do. And also my dad was a teacher.

You for some bizarre reason think the workload teachers take home is higher than that which GPs do outside of hours.

You are wrong. Very very wrong.

Have you ever taken a form to a GP to fill saying "oh it'll only take a minute". Times that by 100. Every day.

And I reiterate - none of a teachers failures to action something same day will cost a life.

after what happened to that little girl who was fobbed off with strep a im astonished theyve turned yu away

how long would it take to give you anti biotics and a swab

YANBU you didn't even miss your appointment, I honestly think the receptionist booked you without checking properly first and double booked you, when you were 6 minutes late they were happy enough to use that as an excuse rather than admit their mistake. Because if they admitted their mistake then they would have to see your child, if they make it your fault then they could double down and refuse.

Either way disgusting and it was an advanced practitioner making that call? So risky.

I don't how you are financially but I used an expensive £40 online GP consultation who video called me and I showed them the problem through the camera and. They prescribed me something and sent it to my pharmacy for me. It was easy.

Don't know if they did it for kids though

I also feel like enough of 'the court' commentators on this thread-OP did nothing wrong. Her child did nothing wrong.

Hangingoninthere88, how did the OP not take responsibility for her child? She literally said she was under 10 minutes late. The broken system is not the general public's fault well arguably unless you voted Tory, even then are people asking too much if they want adequate not even good health care provision?

I don't think it was unreasonable to expect you to reach the surgery in 45 minutes given that it's presumably less than 5 miles away.

Why are we presuming it's less than 5 miles away when the OP has made it clear it wasn't her local GPs surgery

And even if it was, I, for example, don't even have a town 5 miles away, lots of people don't. We don't all live in built up areas

Fuckers! Funny how it's ok for us to be kept waiting whenever they're behind, I've been late into the first appointment of the day before! I hope you make a complaint to the practice and to the local authority

Make a complaint. Given the 111 referral, the risks associated with scarlet fever, the fact that an appointment slot is more than 6 minutes long and that they knew your travel constraints when you accepted the appointment, their behaviour as unacceptable. That said, when I want a same-day appointment I now go to the surgery at 8am and speak to the receptionist directly. There is no point being stuck in a telephone queuing system. If you are infant of them they have to deal with you first and let the phone ring.

YANBU in that they didn’t give you enough time to get there!

It was 13miles away, 40mins it took me

Do you understand why your appointment is late? It's because something more urgent that you had come up.

Nobody's sitting there with tea & toast keeping people waiting intentionally. Imagine you need to call an ambulance & monitor your patient until they arrive? So how long is the average response time these days?

And patients in a surgery are a lower priority as they already have a Dr with them....

Op how is you dc now?

YANBU. I work in a doctors surgery and the doctors are staying late to make sure that children are being seen. They’re even doing sit and waits.

To be left in a waiting room for 2 hours for being 6 minutes late is an absolute joke. I’m so sorry you had to deal with this.

@Hangingoninthere88 what an absolutely horrible post. Perhaps 111 shoukd have advised the op to go to A&E? The op did what she was told to do as many people do.

Personally I stopped having truck with 111 about 23 years ago because they were hopeless. Always better to pitch up at A&E, preferably at sparrow fart when the drunks have been cleared.

I feel very sorry for the overworked GPs at my practice. Especially the couple who are so ground down they do two/three sessions a week at the local private hospital at £95 a pop. 8 patients in two hours. In addition to their part-time partner salary. Average for the practice £79k. All GPs part-time; all the partners have private interests be it GP to the local boarding school, or a directorship at a local "skincare/beauty" clinic.

And what do we get on this thread. GP and primary teacher bingo.

There are three problems with the NHS: attitude, arrogance and gross Inefficiency. It isn't the problem if the patients it doesn't work or join up.

Very frustrating for you. However your repeatedly telling them they are 'duty bound,' to see your child probably didn't help.
Doctors are people too and can't be expected to stay late in their work (although people seem to expect this!).- as it goes, you were unfortunately a bit late, so that will be their get out clause if it comes to it.
Pity they made you wait all that time.
I think I would have asked to speak to a doctor or nurse, if it wasn't an actual healthcare professional who came out to speak to you.
I hope your child got sorted in the end and starting to feel better.

GP here and find this absolutely disgraceful, I can’t imagine comfortably being able to go home with a potentially sick child unseen and would absolutely suggest you take this further. However (and it’s an aside!) to all the posters lamenting that we always run late- we don’t actually, and if we do it’s either a case of patients having far more complex needs that can be discussed in one ten minute appointment, but more commonly patients before them running late. I know it seems pedantic to you when it’s ‘only’ five or six minutes (and in this case your child absolutely should have been seen), but ultimately this is half your appointment and we can’t magic that time back- it only takes a handful of patients in a clinic to run a few minutes late (which happens frequently) and the last patient can easily be kept waiting half an hour which isn’t fair at all.

They're not unreasonable at all for wanting this. Frontline staff are equally (if not more) terrified and angry that they can't provide this. Fighting already burnt out staff about it isn't going to make the situation any better though. We should all be demanding better from the people at the top. I've already said in a pp that I wouldn't personally decline to see somebody if they were less than 10 minutes late. I may ask them to wait until I had a gap in my appointments though which could be a couple of hours or more. It isn't ideal service I agree but I can almost guarantee that the GP made the decision out of necessity and self-preservation rather than vindictiveness.

@Hangingoninthere88 well you may be a GP but you’re not very good at reading and understanding the facts…OP said that it wasn’t her usual surgery and was at least a 30 minute drive away. Then there’s the time to get her two young children in the car, work out her route given that she wasn’t familiar with the surgery and it was also rush hour which lengthened her journey.

You also presume that her surgery is less than 5 miles away. Well mine is 7.5 miles
away (and that’s the nearest one - rural
area).’There’s also not a car park at my surgery despite most patients living some distance away. My surgery is up a hill about seven minutes walk away from the nearest car park. Well, seven minutes if you’re fit and healthy and/or don’t have sick children with you….

Wow if you are genuinely a GP then that’s a bit of an eye opener.
So the blame is on us mums because we are not ‘doing everything in our power’ to get our child seen?
wow just wow.
We are doing everything in our power and more. We move hell and high water to get the best for our kids and when they are ill we would walk over hot coals and not sleep a wink for days if it helped them recover.
The trouble is, we can’t get them antibiotics by ourselves. We are not given that power in the Uk.
Getting to see someone who can give us those is like getting blood out of a stone and incredibly infuryingly frustrating. I’ve been there myself this week for my child. I queued up in -3 for 35 minutes with two younger siblings in tow at 7:45am outside the GP surgery as instructed just to try to get an appointment. Child had rash, high temp, raging sore throat and muscle aches. And I still couldn’t get one.
Its broken.
This 3 year old was asked to wait 90 mins with suspected Scarlett fever and then told go home.
Someone actually locked up and turned off the lights merrily knowing that they turned that 3 year old away when they were only 5 mins late for their much needed appointment.
It goes way beyond ‘a point to be raised’
shame on them.

Im amazed they didn’t see you. When I had a poorly child who 111 said needed to be seen, the gp practice stayed open later for me as I needed to travel and then sent me straight to A&E as a red flag for sepsis. I’m incredibly grateful that the GP did that. I’m shocked that 6 minutes late they just didn’t see you at all especially knowing you were travelling across town, were sat in the waiting room for ages and had dragged out a poorly child and a baby.

I don't think you've read the script.

GPs are all lazy privileged people who refuse to see people on a whim and wouldn't know what hard work is because they aren't a teacher.

I joke clearly - but thats the ridiculous way this thread is going.

OldEnoughToHaveReadBunty, yes but that is exactly the problem, the normalised inadequate service and the patients are at fault for having some, any, expectations of a health care system!

Why haven’t you responded to a single other thing in @Hangingoninthere88 post, OP? You keep harping on about this 40 minutes. She is right, 111 could have signposted you to a walk in centre for treatment. Did it not occur to you to try this yourself, or childrens a&e? I know it’s inconvenient to wait but if I was that worried about my child I’d sit there all night.
GPs are not robots, they don’t run a 24 hour service. It’s a shame you wasted a journey but honestly if you knew you’d be cutting it fine, why waste the appointment? I hope your daughter is ok.

Whether they were pissed off with the comments is irrelevant there was a sick child to be seen.