Doctor refused to see 3yo with suspected scarlet fever

[Phyllisdoriss]

My 3yo presented scarlet fever symptoms Sunday morning. Classic temperature, sandpaper rash, strawberry tongue so almost certain scarlet fever.
Phoned 111 at 10.30, get through around 12. Was told a clinician would call back within 2 hrs but very busy so could be longer.
Get a call around 3.45. Not the clinician but someone checking in. Clinician phoned around 7pm, really lovely lady who said she would make a referral to GP and that they will be ‘duty bound’ to see DC next day (today). DC was comfortable and settled down to sleep so she didn’t want to send us anywhere through the night, could end up being really late. We have a baby too.
This morning I phone GP first thing to book appointment. They acknowledged the referral from 111 and tell me a doctor will be in touch.

3.35pm my GP surgery phone to offer an appointment at a surgery 30mins (on a good day) away for 4pm. I said that would be impossible, so they offered 4.30 and that is the latest they can do. I accept the appointment but think it’ll be a tall order to get 2 toddlers, one quite unwell, in the car and there for 4.30 through two busy towns at rush hour but I was going to try my hardest. We got to the desk at 4.36 a flustered mess (I’m never late and hate being late)

They refused to see DC as we had ‘missed’ the appointment. I said they were duty bound to see her which they said they would but we could be waiting a while. As I’d had to rush everyone out of the door I’d not packed and snacks/toys so the thought of a long wait was not ideal but no choice.

At around 6pm a lady comes to tell us that they would not see her today. I said you’re duty bound to see DC today and she rudely responded with “you missed your appointment” and other remarks like “other patents managed to get here on time”. Yes but have other patients traveled as far, with such short notice, alone with two very young children?
Poor DC was even trying to show them crying saying “but look, I’ve got a nasty rash”.
AIBU to think this is truly appalling.

School starts at 8.30 for the children the teachers are already in and set up by then

Exactly. And as someone who has worked in many roles in a GP surgery... Why is it only ever teacher's who say "oh I couldn't possibly do that. I'm a TEACHER!"

Well, nurses on wards also can't have their phone on them. Nor people working the till at Tesco. Nor lots of jobs actually.

None of these others professions work neatly between 8.30 & 3.30 with extensive holidays. And yes, I know teachers do work in the evenings & holidays. But you are at home. You can have your phone on you like anyone else at those times.

Sugarfree23 you clearly haven't read the OP's explanation for that which she clarified earlier. Of course the OP would repeat what 111 said as this is her child who she is obviously very worried about and she needs the antibiotics. Ego's being damaged from using the 111 terminology are not really the issue here- so petty!
Equally, I'm near to my surgery but have run with illness before due to the offerings of appointments that are pretty much straight away! It is extra hard to get to a GP quickly if you are intermittently stopping to vomit. I had a severe allergic reaction on Friday, I looked like id been in a boxing ring with one eye, tbh I was breathless with it but couldn't cope with the idea of hospital as the pharmacist recommended so asked if there was any prescription level antihistamines. I wonderhow many people who are very ill can even manage the travelling. I had an ear infection that was absolute agony in the summer, I was visiting my Mum so had to do the 111 and local GP, I waited for 6 agonising hours for just 111 to call back, they were useless and no appointments due to not being local, in the end my husband turned up Friday afternoon having travelled up to join me and we paid for a private GP appointment, had to drive 40 mins still but it went on his work health cover for families! There is no way I could have driven myself.

Well that's fine. Our lines open at 8.

It wasn’t her surgery.

Have you called 111 back op?
I wonder what they would have done if you’d said I can only get to one of two local surgeries not one miles away. Not everyone has a car or money for a taxi. 30 mins drive is a lot when you have 2 local surgeries.
Our Gp has a surgery in main village and a satellite one in tiny village that I think there 1 bus a day to. They are very good at pointing out if it’s in tiny village as many can’t get there - I prefer it as you can park and usually can be seen sooner. But I wouldn’t expect them to say appointment in tiny village or nowt bad luck (it’s not walkable with a pram it’s several miles and no footpath/fast roads)

YANBU and I can’t remember the last time I was seen by a doctor on time. For that reason, why couldn’t the doctor just have seen the next patient in the waiting room, then seen you and your DC afterwards? I presume the waiting wasn’t empty?

Honestly, this rigidity and inability to show compassion and understanding within the NHS is staggering. In an ideal world everything would run to time, but there are too many variables in this scenario to guarantee that. And we are talking about six minutes!!

I would complain to the practice manager, this was entirely unnecessary.

I don't suppose you have home doctor visits? I assume not.

??? It was six minutes. And OP had been given the appointment at the last minute. And a three year old had suspected scarlet fever.

It was pretty negligent of the GP, quite honestly.

What world do you live in where you can always perfectly time things in traffic with no notice?

And even if you can, and OP is just flakey, why the chuff should the three year old bear the brunt of that?

Honestly, OP, you did your best, but we've been conditioned to stand for a pretty poor service from the NHS at times, and to give them a load of leeway (when do you ever get to go in for an appointment on time?), but to receive none in return, and you've got a few examples of this on your thread.

When your child is sorted make a complaint to the GMC/ local MP. It’s disgusting. They should have done a telephone call and prescribed antibiotics immediately - that is the protocol at the moment. Scarlet Fever doesn’t just very rarely lead to invasive strep a it can lead to heart problems/ rheumatic fever if untreated. It has to be treated by law

These are hugely inefficient time wise and are therefore limited to housebound patients in most areas. Very few toddlers are housebound.

I'm genuinely shocked that anyone thinks you are being unreasonable. I can only assume they either haven't read all of your posts or haven't understood them.

I hope your little one is feeling better soon.

You clearly don't have good friends who are primary teachers if you think those are their hours. I don't know any who aren't in school at around 8 a.m. or who leave before 4.30 pm or later, at which point they are taking home a pile of marking, report writing, lesson preparation etc. And that 's before you factor in things like covering school trips, sports events, rehearsals for school plays and concerts, after school clubs, meetings, parent-teacher evenings etc etc. And they work throughout most of the holidays. Pull the other one.

Absolutely this.

And it's not as though it was an adult with a bunion. It was a three year old with suspected scarlet fever, needing antibiotics. A risk for sepsis. But hey, let's leave that risk unmanaged and chance the child's life, because the mother was a whole six minutes late. That's reasonable......

If the system wasn't broken the child would have been seen the night before by 111. A few years ago that would never have been left for the next day. The years of underfunding is showing.

I'm a GP. At my clinic we single handedly manage a triage list when we're on call. Today I'd had over 40 requests for contact by 11am. Many of these ideally needed seeing F2F. I have to try and get this cleared by 2pm btw as this is when my choc full afternoon clinic of routine patients arrive ...

GPs are drowning in the work if anything more than most specialties. It's horrifically impossible. They don't have the luxury of pandering to your time schedule unfortunately. As the child's parent you need to take a bit of responsibility for their health and wellbeing. This means that if you genuinely feel they need seeing that day then you do everything in your power to get them seen that day even if it's an inconvenience. I don't think it was unreasonable to expect you to reach the surgery in 45 minutes given that it's presumably less than 5 miles away. I will say I would personally give patients at least 10 minutes grace and the opportunity to wait until the end of my clinic to be seen to be fair. If you genuinely were only 5 minutes late then this is perhaps a point to raise with the surgery. However you simply have to understand the pressure doctors are under and take a bit of responsibility for your own child. If you're worried about her then just take her to ED or a walk in centre and accept the inconvenience of waiting to be seen.

I would also question why you're so pissed at your GP who has a finite amount of time in the day to make contact with their patients and yet you lay no blame on 111. 111 are contracted to provide you with emergency care. They have walk in centres at their disposal who yes get busy but they are operated by doctors 24/7. Rather than signposting a child with strong signs of a potentially life threatening disease to one of these walk in centres they've shifted responsibility back to your GP instead. The system is broken. You need to just accept that and do what's necessary to keep your kid safe I'm afraid. The frontline staff are doing their best.

I’m shocked that they left a child with suspected scarlet fever in the waiting room.

Protocol where? Antibiotics should not be prescribed unless necessary. The rash of scarlet fever is sandpaper like. Very hard to assess the feel of something over the phone.

Fair enough. They only operate after hours and on weekends here ( Sydney). No cost to patient.

why are you so far away from your GP?

IT WASN’T HER SURGERY.

I feel incredibly sorry for front line staff, I know it's impossible at the moment. The OP does say though that she was sent to another surgery which is at least a 30 minute drive away, not accounting for school time traffic. In the circumstances I think she did her best to get there.

I don't know what you expected her to do, when she was only offered an appointment it would be touch and go to meet. What did you want her to do, fly? Explain how it was her fault she was late.

Why has PP brought the subject of teachers into this thread? It is absolutely irrelevant to what the OP is asking. News flash, not everything is about how many hours and how hard teachers work. In particular this thread is not about teachers and their hours of work.

OP. This is not ok and what happened to you and your child is appalling. Is this what this country has come to? Having to feel grateful that you’re offered a doctor’s appointment miles away, that you have a low chance of being on time for? And then not to have your ill child seen when you arrive a few minutes late?

It’s not good enough.

Sounds like a really stressful and worrying day and I really feel for you OP. I hope your DD is ok. Of course you were not being unreasonable. I fear how stressful life is becoming and how our compassion and understanding for others has waned -to people using petty comments, being rude and hostile instead of supportive and helpful. Reading some of the comments on here reaffirms that feeling: that we are all struggling...but when it comes to a child being ill -5 minutes of time is not an issue.
You did your absolute best and you and your child were let down.