Doctor refused to see 3yo with suspected scarlet fever

[Phyllisdoriss]

My 3yo presented scarlet fever symptoms Sunday morning. Classic temperature, sandpaper rash, strawberry tongue so almost certain scarlet fever.
Phoned 111 at 10.30, get through around 12. Was told a clinician would call back within 2 hrs but very busy so could be longer.
Get a call around 3.45. Not the clinician but someone checking in. Clinician phoned around 7pm, really lovely lady who said she would make a referral to GP and that they will be ‘duty bound’ to see DC next day (today). DC was comfortable and settled down to sleep so she didn’t want to send us anywhere through the night, could end up being really late. We have a baby too.
This morning I phone GP first thing to book appointment. They acknowledged the referral from 111 and tell me a doctor will be in touch.

3.35pm my GP surgery phone to offer an appointment at a surgery 30mins (on a good day) away for 4pm. I said that would be impossible, so they offered 4.30 and that is the latest they can do. I accept the appointment but think it’ll be a tall order to get 2 toddlers, one quite unwell, in the car and there for 4.30 through two busy towns at rush hour but I was going to try my hardest. We got to the desk at 4.36 a flustered mess (I’m never late and hate being late)

They refused to see DC as we had ‘missed’ the appointment. I said they were duty bound to see her which they said they would but we could be waiting a while. As I’d had to rush everyone out of the door I’d not packed and snacks/toys so the thought of a long wait was not ideal but no choice.

At around 6pm a lady comes to tell us that they would not see her today. I said you’re duty bound to see DC today and she rudely responded with “you missed your appointment” and other remarks like “other patents managed to get here on time”. Yes but have other patients traveled as far, with such short notice, alone with two very young children?
Poor DC was even trying to show them crying saying “but look, I’ve got a nasty rash”.
AIBU to think this is truly appalling.

YANBU. That is ridiculous. It’s so stupid 111 can’t just find the nearest available appointments and book you into one you can get to directly. Personally I would take LO to OOO urgent care or A&E. I know it isn’t an actual emergency but without antibiotics scarlet fever can be very serious indeed and if you can’t get them via a sensible route like a GP appointment I’d find another way. I’d also make a complaint to the practice and say that while you understand they are busy etc that to refuse to see you due to an unavoidable delay in reaching the surgery, even after asking you to wait for over an hour you find unacceptable and you’d like their feedback as to whether or not the person turning you away followed policy and if so why they feel that policy is reasonable.

Sorry I need to correct my PP, over 300 people died in the 2017/2018 outbreak, not 300 children.

"In the 2017/18 season, there were 355 deaths in total across the season, including 27 deaths in children under 18. “ 9th December 2022 update
GAS, iGAS and Scarlet fever - RCEMLearning
www.rcemlearning.co.uk/foamed/gas-igas-and-scarlet-fever/
www.rcemlearning.co.uk/foamed/gas-igas-and-scarlet-fever/"

I would imagine there was a fair bit of eye rolling over the amount of time it took to gather yourself and your kids to attend the appointment though.

What, 15 minutes? For a baby and toddler with no notice? (Given that we know the surgery was a 30 min drive away "on a good day")? I'd love to know what super juice you drink to think that most people should be able to get an adult, baby and sick toddler ready (nappies changed, wees, coats, shoes, hats, gloves, strapped into car seats) in less than that time, I'm sure parents all over the world would love to know your secret.

Oh come on. If you actually work in a GP surgery you would know that no Receptionist would leave a poorly child sitting in a waiting room just to them unilaterally decide nobody could see them. Why even ask them to take a seat if you were going to do that?

OP, the fact of the matter is there are not enough GP appointments to go around on a good day - let alone just now with scarlet fever. The safe line needs to be drawn somewhere - ie the amount of patients it is safe for one GP to see in one day.

The error here is only offering an appointment you could never make. You wouldn't be seen at the surgery I work at if you were more than 10 mins late either.

Spoken by someone who had to close the emergency list at 2pm today (we close at 6) as there were more than 60 patients on it for 2 Dr's to see.

So you can count but not read?

Maybe this isn't the forum for you.

This. And when they’re poorly and don’t want to get up and go….

I’m so sorry OP, that’s awful. The bureaucracy involved for getting antibiotics is ridiculous in this country (as is the fact that you were told to sit in a GP reception for hours with a highly contagious disease).

You were six minutes late for a ten minute appointment with an illness that would take about 30 seconds to diagnose and another few seconds to send tbe prescription to an admin person.

Shocking.

I would…

1. Call 111 again and tell them the GP refused to honour the appointment because you were 6 min late.
2. See a private GP asap by videolink and get a private prescription.
3. Change GP practice if possible.
4. Put in a formal complaint re old practice refusing to see a seriously ill child that they had a legal duty to see who was there during her scheduled appointment slot - yes a little late but still there before the GP had to see anyone else.

What absolute power-trippy incompetent wankers, I’m furious on your behalf.

I’d complain via practice manager. If they had offered appointment at 4 or 4.30 in the morning you would have been there.
It’s not realistic to offer an appointment 30 plus mins drive away at short notice.
Hope your dc is ok.

YANBU. I’d have been absolutely raging about this. I think we’re really lucky where we live with the GP surgery, they are always friendly and I’ve never had an issue. I once collected toddler DD from nursery at about 5.30pm. She had a very high temperature and was very upset (I was really annoyed the nursery hadn’t called me but anyway). I wasn’t even sure if the surgery was still open but I brought her straight there, and thankfully it was still open. The receptionist was lovely, said the doctor would see her. I waited maybe 20 mins and in that time the receptionist came over to reassure me a couple of times, I must have looked worried. Doctor took about 2 mins to confirm ear infection and prescribe antibiotics. If I were you I would definitely complain.

I would ring 111 op and use the out of hours service.

I have a child with two conditions which need urgent care roughly 6-8 times a year.

It is much easier to wait until the gp surgery closes and go via 111 because they can usually just issue a prescription.

GP Surgeries are actually broken.

How about you read the OPs post properly ffs

Technically she didn't miss the appointment but was late for it. Appointment times are 10 minutes. There was still 4 minutes of the appointment remaining. Perfectly long enough to prescribe antibiotics.

@strawberrysea YANBU

Ignore all the rude idiotic comments saying you missed an appointment etc. I completely sympathise with you and would be making a complaint and getting back onto 111 this evening too.

That's what I was thinking?

GPs used to have a catchment area and went ever happy to have people outwith their area.
I get the feeling op riled them with the 'duty bound' comments.

To those saying the system is overwhelmed…yes to a degree, but different practices are run with differing levels of efficiency. Myself and my daughter are asthmatic and the dr refused to prescribe any more inhalers until we had a review. Fair enough. I booked the two reviews consecutively and had to do so during school/work hours because the nurse only works 830-12. Each appointment was blocked out for twenty minutes. We got there, blew into a peak flow (we both have peak flows at home), she asked if we were in good health. Yes. Three minutes and we were done. I appreciate some asthma reviews might be more complex but honestly, what a waste of time and money. That nurse then won’t have seen anyone for another 35 minutes. I could have submitted the peak flows online and no appointments would have been needed at all (nor would I have had to miss work). I’m a teacher. My contracted hours are 37.5 a week. Do I work over that to meet the needs of my students? Of course I do. It’s dreadful that OP’s DC wasn’t seen. Lots of GP
practices (not all) are very inefficiently and uncaringly run. This is an example of that. I very rarely complain OP (mainly because I can’t be arsed!) but if I was you I absolutely would.

Op had a car but no idea where it’s parked (not everyone has a drive or can park right outside) or what parking like at other end especially if it’s not a surgery op familiar with. It’s school run time and icy/snowy.
If practice has patients 30 plus mins car ride away then don’t offer then appointments for 25 mins time that’s just common sense. It sounds like op should have been told to come at 4pm much earlier in day.

YANBU. Yes you were five or so minutes late but shit happens. It was going to be tight to begin with. I once waited 90 minutes in a GP waiting room. They should have squeezed you in, especially for a sick child with scarlet fever. What harm would it have caused? That the doctor wouldn't have been able to leave at 6pm on the dot?

Appointments are 10 minutes strictly speaking by schedule. Some are way less and some are over. At the very least she had 4 mins left of her allotted time. 4 mins would be all that’s needed for the doctor to recognise Scarlett fever and perscribe antibiotics.

I agree with @Itsoktogiveup. In addition I'd make a formal complaint and copy your MP.

Next time my GP keeps me waiting, for 35 minutes I think I'll refuse to see them and send them a bill for £25 plus expenses.

For information my surgery which is the closest and takes about 15 minutes minimum to get to allowing for parking, has taken over every other GP locally as they come up. They now have 34,0000 patients. The furthest practice is about 3.5 miles away but in rush hour this can take 40 minutes. I've been called 15 minutes before an apt on occasion to be told my appointment has moved to this practice. I have managed it, I have a car. If I were reliant on public transport I couldn't.

These issues are more about attitude and poor customer service than resources. We have an NHS that thinks it can click its fingers and we will jump.

I hope the op's dd is better soon. If you do copy your MP I bet you'll have an apt by mid morning tomorrow.

Haven't RTFT but of course Yanbu and those saying 'you were late tho' are morons. You did your best to get to a short notice appointment. You are not superwoman, you couldn't have gotten there quicker. To leave you sat there with a sick kid and a baby for that length of time is disgusting. A simple throat swab and a prescription is all it would have taken. This is why so many people go to a&e.

Utterly shocking from the surgery and I would be complaining to anyone and everyone about this. I hope your dd is better soon.

Yes I would have taken an appointment at any time today just a bit more notice was needed. Yes, unfamiliar with the surgery so had to Google the address and put in satnav

I'd also add that bearing in mind your child likely has scarlet fever thatbtheybwere exceptionally negligent to leave you in the waiting room for that long with such a potentially infectious child. That's what I'd be raising merry he'll over. Particularly after the hysteria over covid. Scarlet fever is a far bigger killer.

If you worked with GPs you would see the true ignorance of this comment. Appointments are booked (with us) between 8.30am & 6pm. When do you think the rest of the work happens? Referrals, reviewing test results etc. There's a reason GPs are leaving the NHS in large numbers. A very good reason.

NHS England released a statement yesterday saying this isn’t a thing in England, and it seems to be an online rumour gone mad. They’ve asked people not to attend pharmacies for swabbing.

Obviously I’ve no idea where you are, but just for others who might read this and go to the pharmacy!

Our local Boots had a sign outside all weekend saying this wasn’t a service they offer and not to go in if you believe you might have scarlet fever.

Absolutely agree