Doctor refused to see 3yo with suspected scarlet fever

[Phyllisdoriss]

My 3yo presented scarlet fever symptoms Sunday morning. Classic temperature, sandpaper rash, strawberry tongue so almost certain scarlet fever.
Phoned 111 at 10.30, get through around 12. Was told a clinician would call back within 2 hrs but very busy so could be longer.
Get a call around 3.45. Not the clinician but someone checking in. Clinician phoned around 7pm, really lovely lady who said she would make a referral to GP and that they will be ‘duty bound’ to see DC next day (today). DC was comfortable and settled down to sleep so she didn’t want to send us anywhere through the night, could end up being really late. We have a baby too.
This morning I phone GP first thing to book appointment. They acknowledged the referral from 111 and tell me a doctor will be in touch.

3.35pm my GP surgery phone to offer an appointment at a surgery 30mins (on a good day) away for 4pm. I said that would be impossible, so they offered 4.30 and that is the latest they can do. I accept the appointment but think it’ll be a tall order to get 2 toddlers, one quite unwell, in the car and there for 4.30 through two busy towns at rush hour but I was going to try my hardest. We got to the desk at 4.36 a flustered mess (I’m never late and hate being late)

They refused to see DC as we had ‘missed’ the appointment. I said they were duty bound to see her which they said they would but we could be waiting a while. As I’d had to rush everyone out of the door I’d not packed and snacks/toys so the thought of a long wait was not ideal but no choice.

At around 6pm a lady comes to tell us that they would not see her today. I said you’re duty bound to see DC today and she rudely responded with “you missed your appointment” and other remarks like “other patents managed to get here on time”. Yes but have other patients traveled as far, with such short notice, alone with two very young children?
Poor DC was even trying to show them crying saying “but look, I’ve got a nasty rash”.
AIBU to think this is truly appalling.

I ask again what are the magic MPs going to do here? It's their flagrant defunding and denigration of the profession that has led to this.
I would intend complain to them and ask they how they intend to fix the mess they made!

That’s absolutely disgusting. I would put in a written complaint to the manager. Isn’t it interesting that patients usually have to wait up to 45 minutes for their appointment, yet if you are 6 minutes late they won’t see you. I had the same once, left very early as I always do but got stuck in a traffic jam as there was an accident on a roundabout. Ended up being 10 minutes late and they refused to see my son even though the waiting room only had one person in it and it was for the nurse who you always had to wait at least 20 minutes after the appointment time to see. I got told I should have phoned (very practical while driving and the fact that it takes them 30 minutes to answer the phone). Had to make an appointment the next day and got “you missed an appointment yesterday!”. I said, yes I know, why do you think I’m making one today.
It’s even worse now with the strep A issue here. They should be ashamed of themselves.

Massively frustrating times for all parties. I generally avoid stress of using a GP at all for my kids or myself. If a bit poorly I use over counter pain relief/cough medicine/decongestant/ throat sprays/lozenges. If any doubt, I would try GP but then 111. It is horrid waiting for hours with poorly kids only to be turned away without being seen.
As a GP, they have to assess who to turn away, who to see, who to delay, who to refer. Practices squeeze in as many appointments as they can and probably dearly hoped to get to OPs child but was not possible with the list of priorities.. As a parent , it is much easier to judge the situation as the children get older. My nine year old was quite sure he would die from pain he had while coughing and was really panicking and short of breath during coughing fits but if you add in the whole picture ( e.g will they eat anything at all ( including ice cream or other treat)are they drinking, weeing, , alert, can temperature be managed with over counter drugs, are they worse, same or better than a few hours ago, Colour of skin, lips, fingertips) I watch closely and wait but mine are 9 and 12 so feel confident doing this. There are a lot of nasty bugs at the moment. Most will make them feel rotten but only rarely become something more dangerous. OP child’s is aged three and it is more difficult to tell ( though not as hard as babies) if they are super poorly. Antibiotics for strep throat in the mildly unwell is a precaution and most will not develop serious life threatening disease with or without antibiotics. Gp’s and A&E are drenched. That said always follow your instinct but be prepared for long waits and to be wrong! Sad to say but I Recommend online GPs and pharmacies if you know what you need and can afford it (generally 50-100£ minimum but is convenient and near instant reassurance/provision of meds)

No, not everyone has the same challenges.

Posts like these drive me up the wall.

A mother is posting about her sick child and how she received inadequate care today but all I seem to get from your post is some ridiculous determination to defend the GP practice?

I’m sick, sore and tired of reading how hard done by GPs are. There are numerous other industries with
horrendous working conditions, worse pay and zero benefits. I understand that it’s busy but you’re not the only person employed in a busy job.

It’s always an excuse. The receptionist was rude? Oh, she’s just so busy. Yet when I’m sitting in the waiting area they’re always talking about what they got up to at the weekend. If a patient is 6 minutes late they can’t be seen, but a doctor can keep you waiting 45 minutes plus at times, or just cancel your appointment on the day. If a patient insists on being seen, they’re described as being rude or a “Karen”, but it was apparently on OP to cause a scene, according to you, to ensure her child was seen. So is that what appointments are now based on? Who can shout the loudest? I’ll keep that in mind; thanks for letting me know.

Secondly, of course OP not being seen is worth raising with the surgery. She should absolutely raise a complaint. It is completely unacceptable. Firstly, to not take her when she arrived as she was within her slot, but additionally to have a sick and contagious child have to sit and wait in a waiting room for an hour and half. Yet you all have the sheer audacity to insist on masks being worn and everyone’s hands being sanitised to an inch of their life upon stepping 1cm into the surgery. You really don’t see the huge hypocrisy in that, do you?

111 did their job. The GP did not. It seems to me like you’re pissed off with 111 in general for giving you more work to do. Do you not spend a lot of your time referring patients on to other departments for ailments that could have been treated initially by yourself if they had been able to get an appointment in the first place? Seems a bit unfair to point the finger at 111 for this when you’re just as guilty.

In addition, not everywhere has walk-in centres. They are extremely limited where I live (although going by your previous comments about pandering to patients, I’d likely be expected to grow wings and fly myself and my child 2 hours away and travel there in 10 minutes as to not waste any of your incredibly precious time).

The NHS is a shambles but I would never turn down seeing a sick child at the end of my shift. I have stayed on shift for extra time for much less important things. A 10 minute examination to get a child prescribed antibiotics and to put a mother’s worry at rest isn’t much to give.

It’s interesting, though- if all of us adopted the attitude that a lot of GPs have nowadays, I don’t think many of us would have jobs by the end of the year. I cannot imagine the shitstorm that would come down on me if I turned down seeing a client if they were 6 minutes late to a meeting, then told them if they wanted the meeting they’d need to sit outside my office for an hour and a half and then, to finalise this beautiful trifecta, told them to go home because it was the end of my work day. Absolutely and utterly ridiculous.

It's so worrying when our children are not well. Add on layers of responsibility for all and sundry, only to get a kick when we're down. FGS all you needed was sympathy, empathy, and kindness.

Your message is much more eloquent than mine, but I still felt compelled to post. Really agree with everything you’ve said here.

I do want to clarify that I don’t have a problem with all GPs. I saw one a few years ago for DD and he was great. Incredibly kind, thorough, and he really took time with us at the appointment and did lots of referrals which have been so beneficial for DD. He was absolutely fantastic.

But I’ve also experienced really shocking care, as well. I went to a GP years ago (long, long before Covid) when I was struggling with symptoms which would be huge indicators for anxiety and depression. It took me weeks to pluck up the courage to make an appointment. I was incredibly vulnerable at this time (I’d just experienced an incredibly significant trauma and was really struggling day-to-day).

I show up early for my appointment. Of course I’m seen 20 minutes later, so I’ve spent close to 40 minutes in a waiting room stressed out and incredibly anxious about the appointment itself. But it’s fine, I’ve been called through. I sit down and I’m asked “what can I help you with today?” I begin to explain (quite terribly, my voice was trembling, I was shaking and was struggling to hold it together) how I was struggling, and try to give some examples. I started to say that I’d had some panic attacks, but was cut off and asked in quite a snarky tone “what does it feel like?”, so I explain. “Oh… yes… that does sound like a panic attack”. Then it was just an awkward silence. At this point I had no idea what else to say, and she wasn’t saying anything at all, just looking at me with this incredibly disgruntled look on her face.

Sat there for a bit longer, in silence, and then was told “well just ring us again if it gets worse” and she got out of her chair and showed me to the door.

That was it. Not a single bit of advice from the GP. No discussion of things that may help, even if it was just lifestyle based suggestions. No questions as to why this started, or if I’d had these symptoms for long. And certainly no discussion about any sort of medication that may help. No mention of counselling services.

I left that appointment completely broken. Cried in the carpark for a bit then went home. I spent the next 6 months struggling immensely with the pressures of my final year of uni on top of trying to process and deal with the trauma that had happened to me. I was never going to go back for another appointment.

If she’d spent less time judging me and more time asking a few simple questions, even if she didn’t offer me anything to help, at least I would have felt listened to and would have felt comfortable booking another appointment when things got too much.

This poster seems to have a very similar attitude to the GP I saw that day. Like I was just an inconvenience, a waste of time. I’ve honestly been treated better buying a bag of crisps from the local shop. At least there they actually greet you, offer to pack your bag for you and say “have a nice day” as you leave!

It’s an absolute disgrace how some so called “medical professionals” can be allowed to behave.

That is shocking. I hope your daughter is ok OP, and she gets the antibiotics asap. Posts like these terrify me, the state of our country. I hope you're ok too, sounds like a horrendously stressful day all round.

You risk ending up at A&E or being admitted which is exactly what GPs are supposed to prevent.

You would think this wouldn't you? I called 111 to get an emergency prescription of Levothyroxine as I've recently returned back to the UK. Doctor on the phone was utterly appalling. Almost refused me medication, and told me in go to A&E if symptoms got worse. I totally lost it with him. He called me back and apologised. Seems so difficult to get hold of medication here. In other countries, you can literally get most things over the counter.

The sooner pharmacists who have trained for 5 years to qualify get a prescribing role for minor ailments the better. It seems a quick win for everyone one wonders why not.

A friend of mine ended up using an online private prescription for her DC, it was CQC registered site, the doctor asked symptoms and a photo of her throat. They prescribed antibiotics and sent to her local pharmacy to collect the medication, stating the doctor considered the medicine was required to be taken asap.

You should have to do it and it does cost 29.99 for the prescription to be written, and then another charge for the medication at the pharmacy (you cant get free antibiotics even for a child once you get a private script) But it is an alternative as the throat and other images are fairly distinct so a diagnosis and precautionary antibiotics would probably have helped you. I appreciate this isnt ideal, but just wanted to let you know if you are still waiting for her to be seen, this is an alternative route to getting treatment.

www.theonlineclinic.co.uk

I hope she is feeling better

compassion and empathy aren’t inherently necessary to be a GP. Maybe those valuable (and necessary?) traits slowly erode. I suppose this type of response is the pragmatic and doctrinally expected one, but disappointing nevertheless.

The phone rang at 3:35, presuming OP then spent time discussing appointments before finding a suitable one, do you not think it was possible that some amount of time passed while she was on the phone before she was able to confirm the appointment and get off the phone?

Have you not read the post at all? OP said that her usual GP had no appointments so they referred her to another clinic.

Why are people like yourself being so dense on this post?

I think it’s interesting that 111 failed to provide the contracted service. An advanced practitioner refused to see them.

but the title of this post reads ‘doctor refused to see my child’

i think you have been appallingly let down but note it was non - medical staff who contributed to this.

An advanced practitioner is not non medical they are essentially middle level doctors so, yes, doctor refused to see child. The title is not misleading or inappropriate.

Non medical staff have contributed to this, yes, as did medical staff. I have only followed advice and done my very best to do as I’m told, I don’t know what is expect of 111 but I do expect to see someone doctor or similar (it may sound ignorant but they’re all “doctors” to me 🤷‍♀️) if it has been promised

@Hangingoninthere88 you'd think the ability to read would be vitally important for a GP but it seems not. Now if you have time to be wasting commenting on Mumsnet, perhaps you have time to read the OP's post again and apologise for your comments? But no doubt your too "choc full" of time wasters to do so

It’s besides the point, but for general info, advanced practitioners are not some sort of middle grade doctor. The whole point is they have not studied all physical and mental areas as one does in medical school. They study a particular area and specialise in that. So no, it was not a doctor who refused to see your child in that clinic.

So we’d been fobbed off anyway then with the appointment with an advanced practitioner and not a doctor as promised. Thread title still stands then as we were not allowed to see a doctor.

Jeez, another HCP getting shitty with the Op for having the temerity to want medical attention for a child with scarlet fever.

Is this the third or fourth time you’ve posted on this thread to say it wasn’t a GP who refused to see the child?

What does it matter? She was in a GP surgery, expecting to see a GP, as she should have been able to do. As 111 said she should be able to do. Whatever back room arrangements are made within the surgery to downgrade the level of attention she (didn’t) get are completely out of her control.

She was refused medical attention in a GP surgery for a child who should have been seen. It was negligent. The job title of the arsehole who refused her is irrelevant.

Thank you!

@Lapland123 I don't have tome to.scroll back on the thread but assuming you are a health professional of some description your posts have won top prize in NHS Bingo.

You have blamed 111 and now are blaming an advanced practitioner, notwithstanding shifting blame onto the OP.

You have illustrated quite perfectly what's wrong with the NHS from top to bottom. It's its blame culture. Everything is always the fault of someone else. Well it isn't mostly its the fault of the bumbling behemoth of the NHS.

I think it's rubbish that they wouldn't see you, as your dc obviously wasn't responsible for missing the appointment. I don't really understand why you weren't able to get there on time though. You had 55 mins notice and 30 mins travel time. Presumably you were all ready to go out anyway as you knew that you needed an appointment and it was towards the end of the afternoon so couldn't realistically have been much later. I don't really understand why you couldn't get there by the required time.

They should have seen a 3yo with suspected scarlet fever, and I'm really surprised that they didn't, but I do think you should have made more effort to get there on time. GP surgeries run to incredibly tight schedules and people being late really throws things off.

I hope that your little one is OK.

All explained if first few posts but,.,
55mins notice. Say 50 by the time I got off the phone. It took 40 mins in rush hour traffic through two busy towns. Not my usual surgery as referred. That leaves 10mins to change baby nappy, 3yo to have a wee, look up the address of surgery as never been before. Hats coats shoes on and two young poorly uncooperative children in to the car on my own. Find parking space, children out of the car and walk to the reception desk carrying two young poorly children.
You can do that in 10 mins can you? Because I clearly failed

And to add there’s no such thing as being ready to go with children so young, you may think you’re ready but they are very good at getting unready and having a strip when you’re most feeling the pressure. Should have made “more effort” pfffft!