Page 11 | Doctor refused to see 3yo with suspected scarlet fever

Phyllisdoriss · 2022-12-12T21:04:56+00:00

My 3yo presented scarlet fever symptoms Sunday morning. Classic temperature, sandpaper rash, strawberry tongue so almost certain scarlet fever. Phoned 111 at 10.30, get through around 12. Was told a clinician would call back within 2 hrs but very busy so could be longer. Get a call around 3.45. Not the clinician but someone checking in. Clinician phoned around 7pm, really lovely lady who said she would make a referral to GP and that they will be ‘duty bound’ to see DC next day (today). DC was comfortable and settled down to sleep so she didn’t want to send us anywhere through the night, could end up being really late. We have a baby too. This morning I phone GP first thing to book appointment. They acknowledged the referral from 111 and tell me a doctor will be in touch. 3.35pm my GP surgery phone to offer an appointment at a surgery 30mins (on a good day) away for 4pm. I said that would be impossible, so they offered 4.30 and that is the latest they can do. I accept the appointment but think it’ll be a tall order to get 2 toddlers, one quite unwell, in the car and there for 4.30 through two busy towns at rush hour but I was going to try my hardest. We got to the desk at 4.36 a flustered mess (I’m never late and hate being late) They refused to see DC as we had ‘missed’ the appointment. I said they were duty bound to see her which they said they would but we could be waiting a while. As I’d had to rush everyone out of the door I’d not packed and snacks/toys so the thought of a long wait was not ideal but no choice. At around 6pm a lady comes to tell us that they would not see her today. I said you’re duty bound to see DC today and she rudely responded with “you missed your appointment” and other remarks like “other patents managed to get here on time”. Yes but have other patients traveled as far, with such short notice, alone with two very young children? Poor DC was even trying to show them crying saying “but look, I’ve got a nasty rash”. AIBU to think this is truly appalling.

memorial · 12/12/2022 23:32

RosesAndHellebores · 12/12/2022 23:18

@Axahooxa I have health insurance and vote Tory. I think the op is being entirely reasonable and have urged her to wrote a formal complaint copied to her local MP. I know my local Tory MP would be equally horrified and would intervene.

Gosh how wonderful of the tory prick. Does he have a magic extra GP or 2 that he and his chums have harassed from the profession. What is he going to do? Bring back tar and feathering for all those terrible GPs then? Bring them down a peg or 2 eh?

ReedRite · 12/12/2022 23:32

Hangingoninthere88 · 12/12/2022 22:31

I'm a GP. At my clinic we single handedly manage a triage list when we're on call. Today I'd had over 40 requests for contact by 11am. Many of these ideally needed seeing F2F. I have to try and get this cleared by 2pm btw as this is when my choc full afternoon clinic of routine patients arrive ...

GPs are drowning in the work if anything more than most specialties. It's horrifically impossible. They don't have the luxury of pandering to your time schedule unfortunately. As the child's parent you need to take a bit of responsibility for their health and wellbeing. This means that if you genuinely feel they need seeing that day then you do everything in your power to get them seen that day even if it's an inconvenience. I don't think it was unreasonable to expect you to reach the surgery in 45 minutes given that it's presumably less than 5 miles away. I will say I would personally give patients at least 10 minutes grace and the opportunity to wait until the end of my clinic to be seen to be fair. If you genuinely were only 5 minutes late then this is perhaps a point to raise with the surgery. However you simply have to understand the pressure doctors are under and take a bit of responsibility for your own child. If you're worried about her then just take her to ED or a walk in centre and accept the inconvenience of waiting to be seen.

I would also question why you're so pissed at your GP who has a finite amount of time in the day to make contact with their patients and yet you lay no blame on 111. 111 are contracted to provide you with emergency care. They have walk in centres at their disposal who yes get busy but they are operated by doctors 24/7. Rather than signposting a child with strong signs of a potentially life threatening disease to one of these walk in centres they've shifted responsibility back to your GP instead. The system is broken. You need to just accept that and do what's necessary to keep your kid safe I'm afraid. The frontline staff are doing their best.

I get you're overworked, but really your attitude is incredibly worrying. Your post is peppered with phrases that just leak a sense that you feel the OP was trying it on just by trying to get an adequate level of medical attention for her three year old with scarlet fever. As if patients are just an inconvenience to you.

'Pandering to your time schedule' - did you really mean to put it like this? Did you actually read and comprehend what she wrote? It certainly doesn't seem like it. She was given one appointment time she could possibly make, but only by the skin of her teeth. I doubt she would have chosen to bundle two small kids, one sick, into the car and drive miles for a GP appointment, rather than attend her local surgery. What do you think? I think she just took what was offered and did her best to make it. With hindsight, and perhaps deploying a modicum of empathy, do you really think this is the most appropriate choice of word here?

You keep banging on about responsibility, as if you feel OP isn't 'taking responsibility for your own child'. What exactly do you think OP was trying to do by calling and requesting an appointment and then doing her best to attend the one (inconvenient) appointment she was given?

What do you think she could have done better that would, in your eyes, satisfy you that she was 'taking responsibility'? Flown her car over the traffic? Got a crystal ball and foreseen the scarlet fever two weeks in advance, so as to have a GP appointment lined up at the perfect time at her local surgery? Insisted she be seen at her own local surgery (ha ha, good luck with that)? I'm intrigued as to what a GP thinks is possible or required. As clearly many of us mums must be falling way short.

The system is broken. You need to just accept that and do what's necessary to keep your kid safe I'm afraid I'm sorry, this is baffling. What exactly do you mean by it? Because for us idiot patients, we think we're doing this by attempting to get a GP appointment and calling 111 for further advice when that proves impossible and then taking our kid to the appointment, like OP did. That should be what we do to 'keep our kids safe', no? But you seem to think not. So what else do you recommend?

You seem to be viewing everything through the lens of your own difficulties, without taking a single second to think about the experience of patients who are frightened for their loved ones.

JenniferBooth · 12/12/2022 23:33

So after all the pearl clutching emotional blackmail over us wanting to see our families and expecting the public to control a virus.......after nearly three years of this they are forcing an infectious child to sit in a waiting room for an hour and a half and then not even seeing them. Fuck me!!!!!!

Lapland123 · 12/12/2022 23:33

Missing the point, but why do you title this ‘doctor refused to see child’ when it was an advanced practitioner who refused?

Goldenbear · 12/12/2022 23:35

SchnitzelVonCrummsTum, I disagree, it is not a 'narrative', personally I have never posted on threads about GPs, people are allowed to ask/question what is going on without it being seen as personal, patients are not to blame forr GPs leaving the NHS.

ReedRite · 12/12/2022 23:36

JenniferBooth · 12/12/2022 23:27

@ReedRite Have you and some of the other posters actually looked out of your windows today and seen whats on the ground.

??? Are you talking about the snow? I expect, if there was snow in OP's area, this would have slowed her car journey down considerably. Are you perhaps confusing me with another poster? I've been posting in support of OP, I"m not one of the holier than thous sticking the boot in.

Cactuslove · 12/12/2022 23:37

ReedRite · 12/12/2022 23:32

I get you're overworked, but really your attitude is incredibly worrying. Your post is peppered with phrases that just leak a sense that you feel the OP was trying it on just by trying to get an adequate level of medical attention for her three year old with scarlet fever. As if patients are just an inconvenience to you.

'Pandering to your time schedule' - did you really mean to put it like this? Did you actually read and comprehend what she wrote? It certainly doesn't seem like it. She was given one appointment time she could possibly make, but only by the skin of her teeth. I doubt she would have chosen to bundle two small kids, one sick, into the car and drive miles for a GP appointment, rather than attend her local surgery. What do you think? I think she just took what was offered and did her best to make it. With hindsight, and perhaps deploying a modicum of empathy, do you really think this is the most appropriate choice of word here?

You keep banging on about responsibility, as if you feel OP isn't 'taking responsibility for your own child'. What exactly do you think OP was trying to do by calling and requesting an appointment and then doing her best to attend the one (inconvenient) appointment she was given?

What do you think she could have done better that would, in your eyes, satisfy you that she was 'taking responsibility'? Flown her car over the traffic? Got a crystal ball and foreseen the scarlet fever two weeks in advance, so as to have a GP appointment lined up at the perfect time at her local surgery? Insisted she be seen at her own local surgery (ha ha, good luck with that)? I'm intrigued as to what a GP thinks is possible or required. As clearly many of us mums must be falling way short.

The system is broken. You need to just accept that and do what's necessary to keep your kid safe I'm afraid I'm sorry, this is baffling. What exactly do you mean by it? Because for us idiot patients, we think we're doing this by attempting to get a GP appointment and calling 111 for further advice when that proves impossible and then taking our kid to the appointment, like OP did. That should be what we do to 'keep our kids safe', no? But you seem to think not. So what else do you recommend?

You seem to be viewing everything through the lens of your own difficulties, without taking a single second to think about the experience of patients who are frightened for their loved ones.

Show quote history

👏 excellent post and response.

SchnitzelVonCrummsTum · 12/12/2022 23:38

Goldenbear · 12/12/2022 23:35

SchnitzelVonCrummsTum, I disagree, it is not a 'narrative', personally I have never posted on threads about GPs, people are allowed to ask/question what is going on without it being seen as personal, patients are not to blame forr GPs leaving the NHS.

I mean the media narrative, sorry for not being clearer. It does affect how the public sees the profession. And of course people are allowed to find it unacceptable - it is unacceptable that the system is about to break.

Some of the posters on this thread are repeatedly anti-GP. For those of you that are not, the comment was not directed at you.

Foronenightonly22 · 12/12/2022 23:38

RagzRebooted · 12/12/2022 21:11

That's shocking. Did they consult a GP before they sent you away or was that the receptionist making the decision? I work in a GP surgery and our GPs will always squeeze in a poorly child, and while they do get annoyed with people being late, it's rare that they aren't running at least 15 minutes behind so no one would mind. Also less than 10 minutes late is generally forgivable, you clearly tried.

There's no way our GPs would go home knowing there was a sick child waiting, especially not one with suspected scarlet fever.

Second this Appalling treatment. Complain to high heavens. I hope your daughter is ok tonight

EmmaLouu · 12/12/2022 23:38

YANBU

Yes, of course I feel sorry for front line staff - I am one myself. But, bloodyhell… at the end of this there’s a patient who needs treatment (or to be given a once over at the very least) and in this case that patient is a child.

You are NOT being unreasonable. I’m quite shocked as none of the doctors I work with would ever do this.

I hope your little one is feeling better soon!

SunshineAndSummer · 12/12/2022 23:43

That's ridiculous of them. My GP allow you a 10 min leeway if you're late. Or I'd just be courteous and call to say I am running late, done it before and no problem. Seeing the child wouldn't even take 10min max, just appalling. Sorry you had to go through that

purpleboy · 12/12/2022 23:43

You knew yesterday that you’d need to see the GP. You got an appointment - most parents would have moved heaven and earth to make that appointment. You’re being belligerent and entitled.

This is one of the most ignorant comments I've read on here, entitled?? Did you honestly mean to write that? Fucking hell the lack of empathy as well as common sense is spectacular.

Peedoffo · 12/12/2022 23:43

It's really shit can you move to a practice closer to home so this doesn't happen again? I took my DD in as she had been having breathing difficulties they didn't even perform a chest auscultation just said it was viral. I told them I disagreed. I'm a HCP, I took her OBS, performed a chest auscultation and took her to A&E following another episode of difficulty breathing she was seen in one hour , chest x-ray and antibiotics. I get GPs are swamped but some are missing things. I dread to think of Non HCP parents who are struggling to advocate for their children and don't know the lingo..

JenniferBooth · 12/12/2022 23:46

Sorry @ReedRite Tagged the wrong poster

Lapland123 · 12/12/2022 23:46

GP didn’t refuse
a non GP Advanced practitioner refused
why not say that in the title?
why doctor bash? Who not advanced -practitioner bash for a change

Original poster

Phyllisdoriss · 12/12/2022 23:46

SunshineAndSummer · 12/12/2022 23:43

That's ridiculous of them. My GP allow you a 10 min leeway if you're late. Or I'd just be courteous and call to say I am running late, done it before and no problem. Seeing the child wouldn't even take 10min max, just appalling. Sorry you had to go through that

I would have phoned but driving. Would only get through to a switchboard anyway. I hate being late and of course would have the curtesy to call if possible to do so

OP posts:

OldEnoughToHaveReadBunty · 12/12/2022 23:48

RosesAndHellebores · 12/12/2022 23:18

@Axahooxa I have health insurance and vote Tory. I think the op is being entirely reasonable and have urged her to wrote a formal complaint copied to her local MP. I know my local Tory MP would be equally horrified and would intervene.

My local MP is Michael Fabricant. Totally not the point of the thread but I find myself jealous of you having an efficient MP.

Dixiechickonhols · 12/12/2022 23:48

I really do wonder what world people live in where there’s no snow/ice, no traffic and empty car parks adjacent to Gp surgeries.

13 miles away is my nearest city, 45 mins minimum in traffic.

I can imagine the stress when they call last minute and it’s at random surgery never been to. Put baby and sick child in car. Drive. No clue where going . Worrying about sick child in car seat in back. Baby too. Find somewhere to park - check if pay/how never been before. Walk to surgery (pram?) find where to go to check in. Wait with highly infectious child in a busy waiting room. Then turned away. Drive back in rush hour with hungry tired children.

At the heart of this there’s a poorly infectious 3 yr old who’s been out several hours on a freezing cold day and still not had the antibiotics they need.

Wronglane · 12/12/2022 23:49

@Hangingoninthere88 I’d reevaluate your ‘calling’ as a GP to be honest, you sound a nasty piece of work

ReedRite · 12/12/2022 23:49

JenniferBooth · 12/12/2022 23:46

Sorry @ReedRite Tagged the wrong poster

No worries! Thought that would be it 😊

JenniferBooth · 12/12/2022 23:51

You know what you needed OP Chitty Chitty Bang Bang Its what some posters seem to expect.

HangerLaneGyratorySystem · 12/12/2022 23:52

They don't have the luxury of pandering to your time schedule unfortunately. As the child's parent you need to take a bit of responsibility for their health and wellbeing - yeah, not blaming you in the slightest ...

God help this person's patients, the post is literally dripping with contempt and I notice @Hangingoninthere88has not been back to offer anything else but maybe that's just as well. I don't believe all GPs think like this but I suspect this attitude is why you couldn't get your child seen OP.

Nearly 20 years ago my youngest DD (2 at the time) had similar symptoms. I'd been fobbed off sent away by a GP that morning but DD was so ill I insisted on another appointment to come back that afternoon and was indeed 5 minutes late throwing the car at a double yellow line with a gap and with 2 sobbing toddlers in tow. The receptionist told me to go away; when I pleaded with her the practice manager came out and said you can't see a GP you're late. I explained how I'd rushed down (not to mention if they'd actually not fobbed me off earlier I wouldn't have been there) in front a packed waiting room but was told to go away. I was crying as I walked out, and then I'll never forget it - several patients came out after me and insisted I go back in saying they'd make sure DD was seen! I don't know what had been said or happened in those few minutes but several people were on their feet remonstrating with the receptionist who was shouting "I'm writing it all down so SHE (jabbed pen in my direction) can't complain!"

I saw a GP, same one who'd sent us away earlier, and DD was immediately admitted to hospital with suspected Kawasaki disease (turned out she was fine after a couple of days).

I'm sort of imaging all the posters on this thread supporting the OP being like those patients in the waiting room, complete strangers who helped me that day.

What's your plan now OP?

Original poster

Phyllisdoriss · 12/12/2022 23:53

Lapland123 · 12/12/2022 23:46

GP didn’t refuse
a non GP Advanced practitioner refused
why not say that in the title?
why doctor bash? Who not advanced -practitioner bash for a change

I’m not doctor bashing at all! The title is for simplicity, maybe should say doctors surgery? It’s not really the issue here is it

OP posts:

Check1Check2 · 12/12/2022 23:53

Hmm funny how if you are on time they keep you waiting while they ‘overrun’ but refuse to see you if you are late by a few mins. I find GP attitudes towards sick children shocking.

Dixiechickonhols · 13/12/2022 00:06

Peedoffo · 12/12/2022 23:43

It's really shit can you move to a practice closer to home so this doesn't happen again? I took my DD in as she had been having breathing difficulties they didn't even perform a chest auscultation just said it was viral. I told them I disagreed. I'm a HCP, I took her OBS, performed a chest auscultation and took her to A&E following another episode of difficulty breathing she was seen in one hour , chest x-ray and antibiotics. I get GPs are swamped but some are missing things. I dread to think of Non HCP parents who are struggling to advocate for their children and don't know the lingo..

Her Gp has 2 surgeries under 10 mins away. But sent her to one she’d never been to miles away. It wasn’t her usual Gp surgery. Never been.

I do wonder what they would have done if Op had said cant physically get child there in that short time (not blaming Op at all just thinking out loud)

Lots of people wouldn’t have a car and taxi would take time to come and be expensive or might need someone to come and give a lift. Doesn’t sound like they gave her any heads up when she called first thing that it might be in miles away location. If you usually see gp locally it wouldn’t even occur to me they’d send me miles away.