Tiny violins out - private landlord having trouble

[roarfeckingroarr]

I own a flat that I rent out because it no longer suits my needs to live there and I couldn't find a buyer without making a substantial loss during Covid (due to no private outdoor space).

I try to not be a dick - e.g. I charge under market rate, I don't increase the rent unless in between tenants, I get everything fixed as soon as I can (via management agency), I allow pets/children etc. All things that should be standard but too often are not.

Anyway, I have a tenant who is playing games. Every month for the last three she has had a problem paying the rent. First of all she wanted to move the payment date (fine, circs change, but she was a week after the agreed date), then she was late again, then she decided unilaterally she didn't have to pay because the boiler had broken and I couldn't get a new one installed over night. I reimbursed her for heaters to keep warm and had it replaced as soon as a reputable tradesman could install one - about a week in total. I get this isn't ideal and I offered a £100 discount as a goodwill gesture. She eventually paid.

I hate being a landlord and I am v shortly going on maternity leave with my second child so I need to sell especially as the income is now unreliable to use the equity to buy us a family home.

But I'm scared to put it on the market in case she takes that as free reign to stop paying altogether.

Does anyone have any advice that doesn't include "private landlords" and "scum of the earth" in the same sentence? I wouldn't expect her to let people traipse through her home at short notice and would hope to arrange maybe two open house mornings in Jan to minimise inconvenience - but I also expect her to stick to her side of the contract and pay the agreed rent during this time.

The issue is people seem to think renting out a property is a simple, risk free solution to the issue of funding the retention of a property they no longer wish to live in. It isn't. It is a business decision that can come with significant risks and expenses. For example what you are prepared to put up with a homeowner is not reasonable to inflict on a tenant.

I totally agree with this. The minute someone pays money to live in a property you own, you are in business. Any business comes with risks like unforeseen costs and bad payers. It is totally unreasonable to expect a tenant to look after a property with the same degree of care and attention as you might give a home you own and live in, and when times are hard a lot of people will prioritise heating and eating over rent because those are things that are more essential at the time. If you get a rogue tenant, it could cost a chunky 4-figure sum to get shot of them. Those are the risks you take when you let a property and if you're not prepared to accept those risks, don't do it.

Otoh, as a landlord you have a duty to ensure that the property is adequately insulated, dry, safe and that everything in it is working properly and fixed promptly when it doesn't.

Someone like the PP who lets a property to save themselves a redemption penalty of £6k is also getting an income that will more than cover that £6k in a relatively short time in much of the country (it would take just 4 months to get £6k income for a 2-bed property where I live). If it transpires that the letting goes tits up and you end up out of pocket, remind yourself that you opted to take those risks and reflect that you may have been better off in the long run if you'd got a loan to cover the penalty, sold up and redeemed early. If the risks pay off and you get a nice lump of income, pat yourself on the back when you pay the tax bill, because you got a great result.

"Incase tenant stops paying"

Surely that is what the agency are for

Surely that's is what landlord insurance is for

You could sell with a sitting tenant, but this will limit your buyers

In which case, you would need to provide a section 21 end of tenancy notice due to the property being made ready to sell

You have to take all emotion out of your decisions

I think unintended or accidental clouds the situation

The legal foundation to the arrangement is the key part.

You wouldn't be subsidising the tenant what a ridiculous thing to say.

In fact, @marniemae , it's the opposite. The tenant has been subsidising the LL's mortgage and thus the purchase of a valuable asset.

@LakieLady

Agreed. This should be made clear every time someone advises others to 'just rent it out' on here and IRL.

Someone who decides to serve an eviction notice 2 weeks before Christmas for no reason other than spite is not a kind person or a good landlord.

Being lucky enough to own two properties doesn't make you morally superior. Just try to have some understanding for your tenant. If you need her to move out then follow the legal structures.

Unfortunately my experience of many rentals is that a "good" landlord is one who does the basic minimum in terms of maintenance and still tries to remove half your deposit when you leave for no reason whatsoever. And that's despite being a tenant who always pays, allows access, leaves the place clean, doesn't break anything or cause any problems. Luckily I haven't experienced a "bad" landlord.

There is no in-between

You are either a landlord, which comes with responsibilities
Or
You are not a landlord

It doesn't matter why or how you reached being a landlord

I've found exactly the same. One of the best LLs I've had dealings with was a man who owns a whole small block that his dad built in the 60s, plus about 6 conversions.

He treated all his tenants decently, got things fixed very promptly, the flats were well insulated and had modern energy-efficient boilers, he had a handyman and a plumber on a retainer and they would come out within 24 hours, and he had a stash of electric heaters he would give to tenants eg if there was a delay with getting a boiler part.

He was also happy to take tenants on benefits and would allow pets in g/f flats.

I've had two really lovely landlords, and two awful ones.

The two good ones didn't faff around with agencies. No clue what that's like on the landlord side of the relationship so I'm not criticising OP or anything, but just in my experience it's a lot better when the landlord is happy to be in direct contact about everything.

Our last landlady gave us notice to move out at a similar time of year. However, it worked well with the timing of our house purchase. We were in frequent contact, so we knew it was on the cards and she knew our situation so there was no unpleasant surprises. On the contrary, as we were leaving, she gave us a Christmas card with our last month's rent in cash inside. A very lovely surprise!

Thank you.

In our case, it's a private landlord. We notified them immediately, directly. They did respond pretty much immediately, they were on holiday, so we gave some leeway. However, it was rather humbling to realise our landlord was living it up in the sun whilst we lived without hot water & heating, and couldn't even afford interim heaters.

Most people just want their own home, and will treat your property as such - sometimes that's bad, sometimes that's good. There ARE bad tenants, our next door was one of them. Left the place in an absolute mess, just moved out and didn't pay the rent. The agency knocked on our door asking if we knew where they went. Had little sympathy in that case though I'm afraid, the landlord was awful to us when we put in a noise complaint about these neighbours, and told us to move. What goes around I guess.

In our case, we love our home, and try to look after it and respect it as we would do our own home. We do our own re decorating (with the landlords permission first). And we know our landlord would never sell on us unless there was no other option. The uncertainty though, is heartbreaking, especially as I have pets. I would love to buy my own home, somewhere my little safe haven. It's unfortunately not good enough that we have made the rent payments with no problem (except that once in the beginning) for several years since - I mean, we're not that far away from having almost paid the property price off, even with the modest rent. The system is broken. It's also broken that tenants can squat in a property they've stopped paying rent on, trash it, and there's realistically, very little landlords can do other than take the hit in the meantime.

I have to say though, and I think we're quite reasonable people, I'd be funny about viewings too. I have a very nervous and anxious dog, I have anxiety that is severely triggered by people coming into my home (my 'safe space'), and it would be very difficult to fit in around our work schedules. It wouldn't be to be difficult to my landlord, at all. I'd try my best to do what I could, even if it meant an overlap of payment - I'd try my best to do it. But it'd be incredibly difficult and uncomfortable, and I'd honestly really strongly rather not have strangers looking around my home. It's my landlords house, but it's my home. In my case, it really is my safe space.

I redecorated summer 2020, just before she moved in, so I doubt it needs too much sprucing up

Since she's already starting to take the piss, don't discount what could happen once you serve notice; you could well find it'll take much more "sprucing up" than you expected

Agree with most others though; definitely get her out before marketing the place. Apart from anything else she could easily sabotage any potential sales, which would just drag the whole thing out even further

The amazing thing is we're in a situation where people have to rely on a landlord to be 'good' and if one is 'good' it's some kind of positive for the landlord. It's not actually, they're just doing what they should be doing.

@HotChoxs well yes, but it works both ways. Landlords have no guarantee of having a "good" tenant - i.e. one who pays the rent on time each month and leaves the property in a good state when their tenancy ends.

@roarfeckingroarr

Yes but a tenant isn't a business which has to take this into account when deciding to become a landlord or not.

'There's no noticeable profit' -- oh except that £15,000 you were able to put away for your maternity leave. That was your choice to do that instead of paying down the mortgage.

Those are the risks you take when you let a property and if you're not prepared to accept those risks, don't do it
Exactly, and the reason why almost half have sold their properties and tenants are now fighting to get somewhere decent and convenient to rent.

It's the same thing in every thread about landlords and posters assuming that all rent goes into the landlord's pocket. The majority hardly see any. Many will be working FT, on above average salary and so will be paying 40% of the rent income back in taxes. Take away interests to the bank, agency, repairs, checks, insurance and then an emergency fund for not payment, having to go to court, refurnishing every few year, and it's all gone.

I pay my mortgage via my professional income. I make no profit from my tenants at all.

Why on earth do you bother then?

It's clearly not the case for the OP anyway, who, as @dreamingbohemian says, has managed to cream off an entire £15,000 profit for her maternity leave just in the past year or two.

Why on earth do you bother then?
Because ultimately, the house has gained significant value during the time I've had it. Because although I pay well into a pension, I didn't start until I was 30 and wish to retire at 60, so hopefully will pay off when I retire.

Because families need houses to rent. The current family renting my property are good people and I'm glad that I can offer them a home that is convenient to them until the time they can buy their own place.

Many did decide to get out of it because it wasn't worth it for them any longer.

OP did say she hardly earn anything from it.

In a business this is called a downturn.

Landlords were clamouring over themselves to get in when there was easy money to be made from never ending house prices increases from low interest rates, but now all of a sudden there's a market downturn the game is rigged against them.

has managed to cream off an entire £15,000 profit for her maternity leave just in the past year or two
Nowhere did she say it was from rental income. Maybe it was just from her day to day job.

@vivainsomnia
Because families need houses to rent

They do which is why I've got no sympathy for anyone who's in the game for a quick buck.

They do which is why I've got no sympathy for anyone who's in the game for a quick buck
And I'm saying that most aren't. Why have so many sold otherwise?

You can't have it both ways. Landlords have to behave like business owners but not make a profit. If they are not happy to do so, they should sell. When they do, they are cursed because tenants need places to rent.

Either it is accepted that landlords are business owners, act as such, but get something out of it, or they get out and the economy suffers. What you can't expect is them to act as social landlords, dealing with all the shit and the risks with no benefit back at all.

So it's an investment then. Just a long-term investment for you. When you say you're not making any money out of it, you mean you're not making any money out of it to spend right now . I mean that is true of any investment. Your tenants aren't getting anything long-term though, are they? When they retire they won't have a penny of what they paid - it's all down the drain.

And OP did absolutely 100% say that she had made the 15k profit from renting this property.

Well this says it all really

Landlords have to behave like business owners. Business owners sometimes do not make a profit, and have to find funds to keep the business going until it does. Business owners have to retain profits to cope with downturns in their business. Business owners have to take a long term view on how they are going to make it profitable.

If Landlords got into this for a quick buck and have now sold out because they can't make one then they didn't treat it like a business with an actual plan and graft to reach their goal did they.

Any landlord that bought at least few years ago and further into the past has enough gain on the value of their asset to keep the business long term profitable. Anyone who bought the last couple of years took a poor business decision that relied on unrealistically long term low interest rates.

It's not me that wants it both ways is it. I had to go through major difficulties to keep my business going. I didn't just drop out and leave my customers in the lurch because I decided that it wasn't for me.

no one curses landlords for selling, they curse them for things like

• pretending they have no intention of selling a property, when in fact they're only renting it out until they can sell it. This happened to me and my ex partner in the 1990s. He was having chemotherapy at the time so was on sickness-based income support, his mother was dead, his father not in a position to support him. I was only a teenager with barely a penny to my name. We spent (literally) our life savings on the deposit and first months' rent for this flat, only to find it put on the market within weeks of us moving in - we then found out it was only rented out because they'd failed to sell beforehand. We were very, very lucky that the guy who owned it was happy to let us continue living there until we were ready to move on, because otherwise we'd have 100% been homeless, my partner with stage iv cancer, and neither the 'accidental' landlords nor the lettings agents who had openly lied to us (saying there was no intention to sell) would have given a shit. Because they didn't.
• saying that they are going to give notice to evict before Xmas because their tenant is 'being a dick'. I mean how can any half-decent human being defend that? It's pretty much the definition of abuse of power, to relish the fact that you can take a family's home away at the worst possible time just because you're annoyed with them. Cruel and awful.
• pretending they are doing something altruistically when they clearly aren't.
• leaving their tenants in shitty conditions which they themselves would never tolerate.
• etc.