To ask how I get round giving my old employer (who I’m taking to tribunal) as a reference

[MachboosRubyanAnne]

NC’d for this.

I resigned from my job a little while ago due to unfair treatment that forced me to. Basically I was put on suspension because a family member had been arrested for a violent crime (and cleared of, as in no charges were brought due to them having an alibi). I was suspended in the basis that if anyone found out I’d be a reputational risk to the company. I wish I was making this up but it’s true. So I walked before I was pushed so to speak on the promise I’d get a good reference.

I never once got into trouble otherwise - I was a great employee, always delivered on target, was popular and was whiter than white (not that being related to someone who gets arrested changes this but just wanted to illustrate by good character).

I’ve now had two job offers withdrawn because when seeking a reference and being asked if there are any safety concerns (both jobs required a DBS check so I think they have to ask?) my former employer told them ‘yes’ which is fucking ludicrous. After my former boss did this the first time I gave them a different colleagues name for the second job (HR manager as I was told they just check a few things like sickness record and start/end dates) but it obviously got back to him.

I’m taking my former employer to a tribunal but how the hell do I get out of giving them as a reference when everywhere asks for one from your old workplace? I don’t particularly want to tell them I’m taking them to a tribunal as I just think this would put employers off. I haven’t even done anything wrong (well neither did my relative!!) and I’m completely unemployable I don’t deserve this and I’ve had to go on anti-depressants just to drag myself out of bed in the morning over it. Soon I’ll run out of money (I got 3 months pay from old work but it’s running out).

I have 2 interviews in the week, I haven’t given any references yet but I am just sitting here thinking ‘what’s the point’ as I don’t think I will ever get a job that follows through on their offer thanks to them.

That's disgusting. You need to lay it out on the table to the interviewer straight away.

Why are you thinking along the lines of not asking this employer for a reference, instead of along the lines of having a solicitor write HR a strongly worded letter?

I think you maybe need to explain this to your future employer upfront.

I’m a bit confused- are you saying you have the HR manager as a reference, but that person told your former boss who then gave a different reference?

This. The solicitor needs to lay out that this behaviour is defamation.

The prospective new employer also has a duty to look into doing the DBS checks and proceeding anyway if you explain the circumstances, or they are being discriminatory. You would struggle to force them to hire you, but from an explanation and enhanced DBS it may well be ok.

HR manager sounds weak and you left on a reference agreement so I agree re solicitor's letter to HR. Your boss sounds vindictive.

Is it in writing that you will get a good reference?

I am going through the tribunal process and have put a formal complaint forward but in the meantime I need a job.

I don’t especially want to be upfront with potential employers because I don’t want to have to air my family member’s dirty laundry to them. I feel like I shouldn’t have to do that

I’m assuming the HR manager wanted to check some answers with my boss and they contributed towards saying I was a potential safety risk

Union and ask to see the reference Gather evidence for each and every interview - that will all go into any financial package for settlement

what job do you do?

can a friend help ie work for free for them to get a reference

Sadly not, no

Get your solicitor to request the reference they have supplied and say you will be adding on any to your tribunal claim and financial compensation claim

I would maybe do a subject access request to your old work, and yes solicitor letter.

Are you represented for the tribunal?

If so speak to your solicitor. If not try to get some legal advice (often available free via union membership, home insurance, packaged bank accounts, membership of professional bodies or sometimes even hobby organisations).

There may be a legal challenge available and a strongly worded legal letter should help them realise that they need to be factual in their reference. If they are giving false information then there may be falling foul of defamation or GDPR. I would push for an agreed reference as part of any settlement.

In the meantime I would pre-warn potential employers so you can explain the background on your terms.

I’ve just put in for early conciliation at this stage and do have representation through my home insurance but TBH I don’t think I need them just yet it could be sorted earlier. I don’t even especially want a payout I just want to be able to get a new job. The two jobs I lost I was so so excited about starting

I don't think your ex employers can put that on a reference at all. It's classed as disqualification by association and although it used to be something asked on application forms in the education sector, you aren't allowed to ask anymore.

I would speak to ACAS, and consider submitting a subject access request. It sounds to me that you might have received a settlement agreement and part of that would probably have been an agreed reference which they don't appear to be upholding

I think you need to get over not saying anything to your employer. It's not dirty laundry because your relative was wrongly accused and it wasn't you. You need to be up front so they know what to expect. They can go back and ask for clarification of why they think you're a safety risk if they know the issue at hand.

I personally wouldn't mention it to a potential employer because they will make all kinds of assumptions.

Have you got 2 other work places that you could add as a reference? Or an older workace and a personal one?

For the immediate term do you have any former colleagues who have also left your previous employer who could provide you with a reference?

What type of job do you do?

The only way I can think of this being legal is if it’s Disqualification by Association. That means if you work with children; elderly people or vulnerable people, they can take into account the actions of your spouse/children/siblings. It only applies in some sectors - I think it stopped applying to schools and hospitals in 2018 - but it’s still valid for some home-based activities like being a childminder… does that apply in any way to what you do?

It’s not something Disqualification by Association applies to no.

Some places insist it has to be your current or most recent employer and has to be your line manager. I'm in the process of applying now and this is the case.

Yes this is what you need to do! If they're will to tarnish your name then put them for what they're doing!!!!

A tribunal claim can take years to be heard, due to huge backlog in the ET. I'm assisting with some aspects of a case at present in which the ET judgment was just given in November and the claim was made in 2017. So you can't rely on that as the resolution to this issue if you want to get a fair reference any time soon.

As others have said, what your former employer is doing is defamatory. You need to write to them pointing this out and telling them that it has already caused you loss (the loss of opportunity of getting a job) for which you hold them liable.

There is good authority for the point that an employer giving a negative reference without cast-iron true justification is defamatory. This is why most employers will only give an HR reference confirming dates of employment, role, number of sick days taken and other objectively true facts, even where the employee left on good terms.