To ask how I get round giving my old employer (who I’m taking to tribunal) as a reference

[MachboosRubyanAnne]

NC’d for this.

I resigned from my job a little while ago due to unfair treatment that forced me to. Basically I was put on suspension because a family member had been arrested for a violent crime (and cleared of, as in no charges were brought due to them having an alibi). I was suspended in the basis that if anyone found out I’d be a reputational risk to the company. I wish I was making this up but it’s true. So I walked before I was pushed so to speak on the promise I’d get a good reference.

I never once got into trouble otherwise - I was a great employee, always delivered on target, was popular and was whiter than white (not that being related to someone who gets arrested changes this but just wanted to illustrate by good character).

I’ve now had two job offers withdrawn because when seeking a reference and being asked if there are any safety concerns (both jobs required a DBS check so I think they have to ask?) my former employer told them ‘yes’ which is fucking ludicrous. After my former boss did this the first time I gave them a different colleagues name for the second job (HR manager as I was told they just check a few things like sickness record and start/end dates) but it obviously got back to him.

I’m taking my former employer to a tribunal but how the hell do I get out of giving them as a reference when everywhere asks for one from your old workplace? I don’t particularly want to tell them I’m taking them to a tribunal as I just think this would put employers off. I haven’t even done anything wrong (well neither did my relative!!) and I’m completely unemployable I don’t deserve this and I’ve had to go on anti-depressants just to drag myself out of bed in the morning over it. Soon I’ll run out of money (I got 3 months pay from old work but it’s running out).

I have 2 interviews in the week, I haven’t given any references yet but I am just sitting here thinking ‘what’s the point’ as I don’t think I will ever get a job that follows through on their offer thanks to them.

My workplace from 4 years ago will give one. The Chair of my last workplace’s board will also give one but I worry he may inform my old boss

Yes that’s my experience too although ACAS have told me that legally they cannot insist on that (in practice though they Can do whatever they want and it’s hard to prove they didn’t give you an interview because of lack of references)

In some sectors, an employer makes a job offer and THEN takes up references. So if you get a job offer then is the time to explain that your relative was falsely accused and the situation your previous employer has put you in. And say that if they receive a bad reference they need to ask for specifics.

For the jobs you didn't get, put in a Subject Access request for the interview notes, application and references received.

Can you talk to the chair of Board at your old job and explain the position to him?

If he's any sense he will not tell your old boss and he will want to avoid legal action!

I know this is not the point but how did your workplace find out about the arrest?

Can you get temporary work through an agency and get a reference that way?

Out of interest on what basis are you taking them to tribunal if you quit?

I think it is a really tricky one. I am also involved in an employment tribunal, but because I have other paid work in a different sector I have been able to sidestep the issue.

In your shoes, I would probably put some kind of explanation in the additional info of the application for. Something like:

I worked for X for from date Y to Z. My attendance was good and I received positive feedback at appraisals. Unfortunately the company did not react appropriately when a family member was investigated for a matter unrelated to my employment, earlier this year.. For this reason I felt it necessary to end my job, while the issue of their inappropriate reaction is being resolved. I am sure that X can confirm the dates and nature of my employment.

Meanwhile my previous employer A and B who I worked for before that can also be approached for references.

Just as a heads up - putting in a SAR won’t necessarily mean you get the reference as well. There is an exemption from disclosure under the Data Protection Act 2018 that they could use (and given that they seem like arses they probably will). Sadly I think you are going to have to tell prospective employers an outline of the situation or you’ll keep hitting this blockage.

Constructive dismissal I'd guess.

I had a job where I really REALLY had issues with them, and after I left explained in interviews that I had resigned due to problems with management there so I wouldn't be happy using them as a reference. In every case they understood and I was asked to supply an alternative reference.

You probably won't have to go into details at an interview, just say that you had problems with them which is why you left, and you doubt they would give you a fair reference for this reason.

discrimination in what sense, exactly?

Why did you resign and take them to a tribunal rather than wait until the alibi was proven and resume your job - presumably with no loss of pay or reputation?

If you work in certain sectors - depending on the crime - they may have been being prudent and may have a duty of care to their clients. It also depends on the closeness of the relative.

We don't know the facts but I wouldn't want my cleaner to be married to a burglar/receiver of stolen goods. Or my childminder to have a child abuser for an adult son. Or my teenage DD's youth worker to have violent druggie for a brother. And I would expect my service provider to be absolutely sure everything was fine before sending said employee to me.

TO BE CLEAR - I'm not saying any of these apply obviously. AND YOUR RELATIVE WAS INNOCENT. But for some reason your employer thought it sensible to suspend you, (on pay?), while investigations were ongoing. Most people would ride it out for as long as it took to check an alibi, (days at most), and wait for the apology.

Re the reference - you have had good advice for some posters. My advice would be to drop the case and then you can avoid mentioning it - and your employer might too.

If it’s a regulated activity: finance, teaching, healthcare etc they legally have to have a reference from your previous employer.

Offering orgs have different rules.

eg in the NHS nurses have to have a professional reference so HE can’t provide that, needs to be a line manager.

in others, managers aren’t allowed to give notices and have to pass them on to HR.

*references

this thread is a perfect example of why you shouldn’t ask for advice on employment issues in AIBU. It’s hard to see the facts amongst the opinions.

OP it might be worth getting your thread moved to Employment Issues.

Have you given us the full story here OP? And if so, how did your work know about the arrest?

Your relative won't have been named in the media at the point of arrest so I'm presuming you told them. And I'm also working on the assumption that they suspended you until your relative answered bail /a charging decision was made.

So why did you walk before the charging decision? And without having a reference nailed down to take with you?

I think you jumped the gun here tbh. And whether your employer overreacted completely depends on what the alleged crime was, who the family member is, and the sector you're in. For example, if you are a police officer and your husband was arrested on suspicion of a serious crime, they would have had little choice but to suspend you.

Because like a total trusting idiot I told them in order to take a bit of time off to deal with it all.

Constructive dismissal

Oh, OP! Shit, hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Thank you all.

I think I have to put my big girl pants on don’t I for this and tell them about the situation.

Thing is, old employer could have simply said “resigned whilst suspended” which is true. You don’t know what they have said.

would help to know what sort of role you do, OP.

If you’re not after a cash settlement then why don’t you try to settle your claim for an agreed reference?

@MachboosRubyanAnne i was on the other side of this in that I was interviewing people for a post that required DBS clearance. One person gave a fab interview but at the end told us there might be issues with her references due to a family conflict that had resulted in a police caution - she didn’t think it’d affect her DBS (which it didn’t) but wanted to let us know incase it got back to us (small close knit community). We appreciated her honesty and offered her a job: she was brilliant and we never looked back. If you get a good vibe from a company at interview it might be worth being honest with them…

So if you had to deal with it that suggests it is a close relative/ family member and the fact that you were taking time off to deal with it affected your work.

Again not suggesting anything untoward but I can't see the employer was way out of order simply to suspend - especially since you'd asked for time off.

A quiet word, a "sorry I had to take time off - all sorted now" would have meant you'd still be at work and likely have a good reference. Might it be worth asking if they'd take you back?

Why did you resign and take them to a tribunal rather than wait until the alibi was proven and resume your job - presumably with no loss of pay or reputation?

I did. It’s not like the movies where they let someone go the same day, alibis take time to check out and the police are overburdened and slow. The case was declared as no further action several months before this happened. However someone approached my family member in public, still believing they did this crime, and had a go at them. Which I mentioned in passing to my boss who I thought was supportive of my stance.

We don't know the facts but I wouldn't want my cleaner to be married to a burglar/receiver of stolen goods. Or my childminder to have a child abuser for an adult son. Or my teenage DD's youth worker to have violent druggie for a brother. And I would expect my service provider to be absolutely sure everything was fine before sending said employee to me.

Well thank god not everyone has this stance. I am not guilty by association (not that my association is guilty either)

TO BE CLEAR - I'm not saying any of these apply obviously. AND YOUR RELATIVE WAS INNOCENT. But for some reason your employer thought it sensible to suspend you, (on pay?), while investigations were ongoing. Most people would ride it out for as long as it took to check an alibi, (days at most), and wait for the apology.

It was already over by then.

Re the reference - you have had good advice for some posters. My advice would be to drop the case and then you can avoid mentioning it - and your employer might too.

Sorry what do you mean by dropping the case?