To ask if all five year olds can be abit mean and change personality overnight

[ConfusedMumOfThree]

My eldest ds is just turned 5. I have a soon to be 3 yo and a 2mo. Ds1 is a brilliant bright boy who is always praised for being polite, confident, clever etc. Last 4weeks or so ds has been fine mon-fri but just mean to me at weekends to the point i feel utterly lost of what to do. I'm probably over tired and over reacting but he's my first so no idea what to do or how to respond to him.

It's going to sound petty writing this but He's become generally very rude so if Daddy says things like 'don't do that to the toy it might break', he will respond, 'oh well mummy will just buy a new one'. He is not spoilt and we have not taught him to think he can act like that. I'm cross he can react like this and no appreciate what he has.

He's become a smart arse tbh correcting me, so at one point I said pass me this and said the wrong word and he called me an idiot. This upset me as I was so surprised tbh and then he just said 'ooo look who has her grumpy face on'. It sounds petty but this is not my usual son, he doesn't answer back or call names.

When I've asked him why he's said x y and z he smirks or laughs.

What do I do? I've said today we werent going to go out where he wanted as he was repeatedly rude. But now I'm worried I should be giving him more attention or something? Or am I then spoiling him? It's shit because we're leading to Christmas so by not doing things I feel like I'm depriving him if memories. Obviously having dd1 has diverted some attention but he absolutely ADORES her. He also started reception in sept so he's not around for usual trips out with me (I work part time and have the kids two days a week). Maybe he's a bit jealous?

Can anyone offer advice if this change in behaviour is normal or how I deal with it? I genuinely miss my lovely little boy, with him at school now we only get little bits of time.

My 5 year old girl can have serious attitude problems, but it's normally directed at her dad.

I would say though that having a 2 month old baby probably has a lot to do with it. It's a massive adjustment to have another baby in the house. Add that to having just started reception which is another massive adjustment.

Giving more attention isn't spoiling him. Personally I find when my 5 year old is acting out, it's often because something is bothering her. I usually tell her that I'm there for a cuddle when she needs me, and 9 times out of 10 she will approach for a cuddle, burst into tears, apologise, then tell me what's bothering her. At that age they know exactly how to push your buttons, and he may well be doing that as he knows he will get attention from doing it

We have tried asking what's wrong as his behaviour is black then white. He's much better with dad ATM but as you say, he knows how to upset me. He actually made me cry which sounds ridiculous but I'm just at a loss tbh.

Thank you for not ridiculing me btw 🤗

Has he heard those expressions in your house?

With that kind of cheeky behaviour I had a special gasp then shocked face/ stare that I would do until an apology came forth and if it didn't I would say 'don't you dare speak to me like that' in satan himself 's voice. I only had to do that about twice tbh. I'm sure he's a lovely boy but I believe there is a hormone surge around this age so this type of thing is not uncommon. He knows not to do it though.

You punish him straightaway and specifically for particular offence.
'We do not speak rudely/call people idiot etc, go and sit on the stairs (or whever time out space is) now and he sits there 5 minutes. Every time.
Don't cry! you don't want to put that on him! You just need to be firm and consistent

No he hasn't heard people be called idiot here. I'm sure it can be normal I'm just trying to figure out how to deal with it so he knows it's not acceptable, here or elsewhere. I think anyone outside this house wouldn't believe the change tbh as he genuinely is a lovely, kind, considerate boy. I guess it's another hurdle for me to learn as a parent

Same situation here! Lovely lovely boy, so sociableand kind, just turned 5, still lovely but has times of just being .... mean! I try not to take it personally as I know he saves it all up from behaving in school, and I am the adult here! But he says things like "it's all your fault, you you you"(pointing in my face). You don't count" etc etc.
Meanwhile my 3 year old is being an endearing little soul. It's hard not to come down too hard on my 5 year old by comparison who is, I hope, just going through a phase

Mine has started this, I'm putting it down to starting school tiredness and Christmas excitement.

He’s probably seeing a child in his class behaving like this

I think I cried out of shock, exhaustion and just feeling a bit overwhelmed tbh. It took me by suprise too as I'm quite a tough cookie usually. I just adore my kids and feel abit like I've worked like an absolute dog to get Christmas ready and perfect and now he's acting out. Ridiculous I know (and of course he doesn't know otherwise)

Has bedtime crept in the last week's of term? Because my DD had a sudden personality change around this age and eventually realised it was because we had let bedtime get later. We pulled it back by 30 mins and got our lovely DD back!

Thank you everyone I really appreciate it ☺️

Yes he probably is going to bed abit later as we are still adjusting to all the new routines. It's hard on him I know, all these changes. In the day I'm so cross at his attitude and now as he's asleep, I feel like utter tripe.

God parenting is brutal at times...thank god I just had another 🫣

I think that is very normal for a child to go through stages of testing out some very bad behaviour. My DS is 9 now, and we have been through many phases like this (maybe since 5? I can't remember) where I think 'where is my lovely boy, is he forever gone?' And I'm not really liking him anymore (I of course love him but in those phases he is not easy to be around). But now I tell myself it won't last, he will come back. if you deal with the behaviour the best you can (not too harsh, not too lenient), he will come back around, I'm sure if it.

Thank you 😊

Hang in there, you're doing a great job mum!

I totally sympathise as I also had DC3 when DC1 was 5. It's really important to remember that at this early point both parents are very tired (unless one is completely opting out of their share of parenting or you have serious amounts of help) and probably taking things more personally than you both usually would for this reason.

With that in mind here are some things that you already know 🤣😉

There's no point asking a 5 year old why he does or says things - he won't know (at least not on a conscious level which he can explain).

A 5 year old isn't mean to their parents - his behaviour isn't mean to you any more than a disobedient puppy's. It's quite important to remember that you're the adult and he's an extremely young child who is so far from your equal that thinking of him being mean to you is just meaningless.

He's copying the phrases from somewhere - does a grandparent or uncle or his dad (or do you) say "look who's got his grumpy face on" or call people idiots in his hearing?

5 year olds don't understand their own more complex feelings and very often simultaneously adore a new sibling and feel unbelievably jealous or upset by the disruption - this is incredibly confusing for them and they don't have the language or experience to even begin to work through the contradictory emotions, so it's really common to behave oddly or badly.

Starting school is as much of a disruption and word change as a new sibling - both at once is an earthquake and a tornado in one day.

The key is to correct the behaviour without taking it personally (nor making it personal to him - the old chestnut about disliking the behaviour/ words not the child) and keep any consequences related to the behaviour.

It's really hard when you're tired and have a lot on your plate, but you know all this already and ultimately it isn't our older (but still tiny) children's fault that we have their younger siblings.

It gets so much easier if you can remain calm now, but it is of course really hard having three very small ones.

The most unfair thing is forgetting that 5 is still so little - I think we often expect far too much of our first born when we have our children close together. When dc3 was 5 I had a wtf moment remembering how grown up dc1 seemed at 5 as big sister of 2 and what an absolute baby my youngest seemed at 5 in comparison, because of the pure fact he was the youngest and a 10 year old was practically an adult in comparison... Yet when he was 10, 10 was so young compared to dc1 and 2 both taller than me and in their teens...

Ohh I love Mumsnet. I've had such a hard 3 days with my 3yo (nearly 4yo). She just goes through these phases of boundary testing and it's completely exhausting. Today she had an hours tantrum including attempting to hit & kick me because she wanted her brothers pipe cleaner and none of the identical ones in the packet would do 🤯

I 100% hold my boundaries, she knows her behaviour is wrong & she makes amends afterwards. I'm so fed up of the aggressive & violent behaviour all directed at me and I had a cry today too 😢

I'm sorry you're having a rough time but it does feel good not to be alone in the upset of it! 🫂

Mine was absolutely adorable at 3 and 4 so I thought I’d got away with it, but as soon as he turned 5 he become a right stroppy little thing. Odd mood swings, grumpy and just really irritating.

It’s been about 5 months now and although he can have his moments and is definitely a lot more cheeky, he’s mostly fine again.

I think it’s a developmental stage with trying to push boundaries and copy behaviours from TV, friends and people in the family. In our case it was also lack of proper routine over the summer holidays and going back to school really helped.

Be patient but firm. It won’t last forever (well, until the next time anyway).

Is he maybe being spoken to like that all week at school by other kids?

You are right of course, I'm expecting too much 😥 I need to ease off tomorrow. I hope he's ok in the morning and I haven't made him feel terrible

When my DC started doing this (also in Reception) it was because they’d made a new friend who did it to them almost constantly. Once we figured that out and school separated them, everything got much better.

Factor in the fact that they’re absolutely exhausted at this time of the school year. I didn’t know how tired being at school made them.

I could have written this about my absolutely lovely ds aged 5. He’s just finished his first term at Cambridge so turned out ok.

I know he's exhausted. He's been practicing for nativity, had his Christmas fete and all sorts this week plus he joined an after school club (his choice) so had some longer days. I feel like crap tbh, I've wasted the day haven't I. And I'm meant to be the grown up 🫣 God it's hard. He's at his grandads tomorrow (he was invited for a solo visit) and so I've lost a chunk of time with him for being too sensitive 😥