Nosy NHS pensions question

Jazz12 · 2022-12-10T16:10:43+00:00

Our friends are doctors. He is a GP and she is a hospital consultant. They are both 45. I always assumed they are on final salary pension. They say rules changed and they aren’t! Are NHS doctors not on final salary pensions? Is that a thing of past??

Cheshiresun · 10/12/2022 16:12

No, the final salary element got changed in the last few years, everyone was moved over to the new scheme without choice.

CoffeeBoy · 10/12/2022 16:17

Think it finished in 2008.

Iliketeaagain · 10/12/2022 16:22

Nope - I think the 1995 pension was related to final salary, but then it changed in 2008 and again in 2015 so it is absolutely not final salary related.

In 2015 the 1995 completely closed and everyone was moved to the 2015. I'm not sure there are many people left in the NHS who have final salary related pensions, any that did have either retired already or will be nearly retiring.

hamustro · 10/12/2022 16:24

I might be wrong but I think it's a career average scheme now - so still defined benefit but not final salary.

Princessglittery · 10/12/2022 16:50

If they joined before 2015 they are likely to have 2 pensions, one final salary and one career average. Both are Defined Benefit (DB) schemes. Whilst the 2015 scheme is viewed as less favourable because the Normal Pension Age links to State Retirement Age it is still a very good pension.

Depending on how nosy you want to be the rules are available to everyone to read: www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/member-hub/membership-nhs-pension-scheme

There is a complication known as the McCloud judgement that may affect your friends www.nhsemployers.org/articles/mccloud-remedy

In addition there is a tax issue for all high earners irrespective of employer with the Annual Allowance and Lifetime Allowance limiting the amount of pension contributions that are tax free.

TheKeatingFive · 10/12/2022 16:53

It's still Defined Benefit and you'd be hard pressed to find better pension provision in another job.

Runningintolife · 10/12/2022 17:02

They will accrue years towards an annuity comprising a proportion of their career average salary. Around half depending on years service, career gaps etc.

LesserKnownKardashian · 10/12/2022 17:10

Apologies for hijacking the thread.
If someone was on the original final salary scheme, but moved across to the 2015 scheme, does the final salary part of their pension use their salary at retirement or their salary as it was in 2015?
Thanks

Original poster

Jazz12 · 10/12/2022 17:13

It sounds too complicated !! Does that mean someone who started speciality training in 2010, became a consultant in 2016 is likely to get over £50k a year in pension when they retire!?

OP posts:

Testina · 10/12/2022 17:19

Jazz12 · 10/12/2022 17:13

It sounds too complicated !! Does that mean someone who started speciality training in 2010, became a consultant in 2016 is likely to get over £50k a year in pension when they retire!?

It’s not complicated, and the NHS pension (all sections) is very clearly explained online in a publicly accessible way. How far does your nosiness extend? How much do you actually want to know? And if you want us to explain, how basic do we need to start - e.g. do you know what an accrual rate means?

MontagueLeo · 10/12/2022 17:20

Well maybe, but in 20-25 years time when they retire that may not be an amount to write home about

SwedishEdith · 10/12/2022 17:20

Jazz12 · 10/12/2022 17:13

It sounds too complicated !! Does that mean someone who started speciality training in 2010, became a consultant in 2016 is likely to get over £50k a year in pension when they retire!?

Why are you so curious?

Testina · 10/12/2022 17:25

MontagueLeo · 10/12/2022 17:20

Well maybe, but in 20-25 years time when they retire that may not be an amount to write home about

I think OP plucked the £50K out of the air tbh given that she didn’t even know how long ago the NHS moved from FS to CARE.
Anyway, if you’re talking £50K in today’s money, the 2016 scheme uprates the accrued years (by CPI+1.5% each year I think, but cba to do OP’s googling for her to confirm 🤷🏻‍♀️)

TheKeatingFive · 10/12/2022 17:26

Well maybe, but in 20-25 years time when they retire that may not be an amount to write home about

I wouldn't knock it. You'd need a private pension pot of north of a million quid saved to get that if you had a defined contribution scheme.

pompomdaisy · 10/12/2022 17:27

I've just sent in the claim form and mine is a final salary pension but I left in 2003 and joined in 1991. Do final salary pensions exist anymore?

Testina · 10/12/2022 17:27

LesserKnownKardashian · 10/12/2022 17:10

Apologies for hijacking the thread.
If someone was on the original final salary scheme, but moved across to the 2015 scheme, does the final salary part of their pension use their salary at retirement or their salary as it was in 2015?
Thanks

That information is easy to find online. If the person you are asking for doesn’t know, suggest that they find out themselves through their scheme administrator. Pensions are too important to get into 3rd hand from unverified sources.

Testina · 10/12/2022 17:28

pompomdaisy · 10/12/2022 17:27

I've just sent in the claim form and mine is a final salary pension but I left in 2003 and joined in 1991. Do final salary pensions exist anymore?

Yes they do.

Original poster

Jazz12 · 10/12/2022 17:38

i googled, but still not clear. I give up.
I’m nosy, but not nosy enough for a deep dive.

OP posts:

BelleMarionette · 10/12/2022 17:44

No, final salary stopped some time ago.

There isn't much to recommend about working for the NHS currently.

Testina · 10/12/2022 17:46

Jazz12 · 10/12/2022 17:38

i googled, but still not clear. I give up.
I’m nosy, but not nosy enough for a deep dive.

I’m glad. It’s one thing to idly wonder what they might get - we’re all human and curious sometimes. But it seems a bit distasteful to me to go as far as sharing jobs and ages online to get someone to tell you!!

Northernlurker · 10/12/2022 17:49

I have some in the 95 scheme and some in 2015. I expect a decent pension when I retire having spent my whole working life in the nhs but let me assure you I've earnt every single penny and so have my colleagues. It is impossibly hard work. Especially now.

Original poster

Jazz12 · 10/12/2022 17:53

Northernlurker · 10/12/2022 17:49

I have some in the 95 scheme and some in 2015. I expect a decent pension when I retire having spent my whole working life in the nhs but let me assure you I've earnt every single penny and so have my colleagues. It is impossibly hard work. Especially now.

Why are you getting defensive? Did I say you didn’t deserve it?
just FYI, plenty of people work in the same field (sometimes the same employer) all their life. And a lot of jobs are very stressful too.

OP posts:

Princessglittery · 10/12/2022 17:54

LesserKnownKardashian · 10/12/2022 17:10

Apologies for hijacking the thread.
If someone was on the original final salary scheme, but moved across to the 2015 scheme, does the final salary part of their pension use their salary at retirement or their salary as it was in 2015?
Thanks

Follow the link in my post above to McCloud judgement. That should explain how you are impacted.

I know in CS it’s your actual final salary for pre -2012(McCloud) scheme.

Judellie · 10/12/2022 17:55

I didn't think there were any final salary schemes now, just historical as explained above ie I don't know of anywhere where if you started today you would automatically be put in a final salary pension scheme.

Underscore21 · 10/12/2022 17:56

You'd have to have 40 years full time service in the NHS all in the 1995 pension scheme earning £100k for the last 3 years before retirement, to retire on £50k per annum pension.