to think Elon Musk is shining direct sunlight on a very grubby state of affairs?

[LondonWolf]

Just staggered at what's coming out tbh. When he first bought Twitter there were several lengthy threads on here lamenting that Twitter would soon move to the Right and be full of hate. Now it appears that no one was bothering to work on child protection, child sexual abuse and exploitation routinely unaddressed, and Twitter employees were working directly with the FBI and government to censor stories some which arguably had direct impacts on how people would vote. Are there any threads on here discussing what's coming out like there were screening about how horrific it was all going to be, because I can't see any?

@JuvenileEmu I think the people who are saying it’s “worse” aren’t saying it was perfect before. It’s the active reinstatement of Neo Nazi accounts, anti semitic accounts etc, ones that incite violence against specific groups of people, and Elon Musks amplification of far right content. It’s going to be hard to find people that are ok with that. I appreciate that people in certain demographic groups won’t be as aware of the abuse this leads to, but it’s an important issue for the people it does affect.

I will be thrilled if he attempts to get rid of CSE content. It should have been done a long time ago, and it’s shocking that it wasn’t. But as I posted above, it’s really worrying that the focus at the moment is on the Twitter Files and who was/wasn’t allowed a platform, instead of the much more important issue of CSE.

This is exactly right.

It wasn't a conspiracy. It was a group of people trying to make very difficult, uncharted decisions in real time.

The dangers being faced are real and significant. I think, sometimes, that the UK is in a bubble of safety and thus comments from the perspective of that bubble. Arguments are over rhetoric, not action. When I'm back home, I see it happening amongst my friends: it's theoretical. In the States, it isn't. There have been people, many people, killed because of the rhetoric that is now being amplified. There are plots against the government, to kidnap governors; people phone in bomb threats against hospitals, shoot up synagogues, open fire in a pizza place. And meanwhile, social media platforms become battlegrounds for international espionage and attempts to destabilise power by eroding confidence in things like elections, vaccines, and governmental institutions.

We live an age of disinformation and anger.

The team was trying to deal with this. It wasn't perfect. But it was an attempt both to provide a broad platform and keep people from using that platform for bad ends.

As for Musk himself, he has an enormous voice and reach and uses it carelessly. Some of his tweets, like that about the Brazilian election, have serious and real-world consequences. He is neither impish, nor puckish, nor adorable. It was fine when he was doing his mad-inventor thing. It's not fine any longer.

It wasn't a conspiracy. It was a group of people trying to make very difficult, uncharted decisions in real time.

That team had distinctive and obvious agendas of their own, that were hugely problematic. They weren't just trying their best and struggling.

For what it's worth, this issue goes beyond individual owners for me. Platforms like Twitter need external and legal oversight from outside bodies.

Elon Musk has said removing CSE content is his priority. Obviously it remains to be seen if he lives up to his word, but just the fact that he is paying attention to the problem is an improvement on the previous moderating. I hope he does prioritise it and I hope he succeeds.

Re allowing content that incites violence, I'm afraid I saw a disturbing amount of that aimed at gender critical people, which was allowed, so I don't think that was something the previous moderators did anything about - depending, of course, on whether they agreed with the opinions of the person threatening others with rape and death.

I do think there needs to be moderation, but it should be transparent and even handed. Again remains to be seen what happens with that.

Huh?

I'm clearly on a different Twitter then because I see plenty of dissenting views.

I think it's a huge mistake to let widely known racist groups have a voice on Twitter.

Whatever changes he makes has nothing to do with making Twitter "better" and EVERYTHING to do with his own weird agenda and wish to influence world order.

wish to influence world order

All the large social media platforms are already influencing world order with no oversight. See the Hunter Biden laptop debacle. Do you think a story about one of Trump's kids would have been suppressed in the same way?

It's just that before Musk took over, the people that agreed with the pushed narrative on Twitter were fine with it. They often liked to say it was a private site and they could moderate it however they liked. To leave if you didn't agree. Now all I hear is complaining about being told the same thing.

I said it’s worse because he’s reinstated accounts with a far right lean - yes mr Kanye West I’m looking at you as but one example. And Donald Trump who invited violence and denied an election result. So to claim he’s sorting out hate filled content is naive at best quite frankly.

I managed to sanitise my Twitter timeline by being very firm on blocking racist and far right accounts which helped stop them appearing on my feed - but they still exist. Now, they’re popping up again. I’ve tried to report nasty content but I think the reporting criteria has changed so I can’t.

Elon Musk is just one man with a huge bank account. It’s never good to put your faith in one person and think they know what they’re doing. I don’t think he does and doesn’t strike me as someone who would listen to those who do.

What is it with people adoringly worshipping Elon when it comes to Twitter, I do not know. He’s just a rich man who got rich off the back of others - he didn’t start off with nothing.

We’ve all heard about it so how, pray tell, was it suppressed…. You cannot categorically say that stories about Trump haven’t been suppressed either - how exactly can you prove that?

It is just conspiracy theory bullshit.

The only thing Elon musk is shining a light on is how fast someone can set fire to 44 billion dollars.

It's been jaw dropping watching him lurch from one problem to the next, and it would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous for all of us. Elon musk is not a 'genius' or a 'visionary' or a 'free speech absolutist'. He's a very spoilt, entitled rich kid who never grew out of his teenage contrarian phase. He never made his wealth, he inherited a diamond mine for goodness sake. He has spent the last few years being a Twitter troll (including attacking an innocent diver) and now he can be the biggest troll there is without being banned. He also doesn't have clean hands when it comes to sexual harassment, there are quite a few women who worked for Tesla who have all shared their stories, including how he used NDA and bribes to shut them up.

The only good thing about all of this is that maybe the cesspit that is twitter will eventually die, hopefully taking Elon musk's reputation with it.

Have you been reading the stuff that's been released recently? I've no idea what's true and what's not but I'm happy to watch it play out.

twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1598822959866683394

Twitter certainly wasn't impartial before and I doubt it will be now.

I don't worship Elon Musk, I don't even think that he seems to be a pleasant person, and I completely agree that tech oligarchs have allowed to build up way, way too much power for themselves. I don't know how it could be dealt with but I think it needs to be, urgently.

Regarding right wing accounts, I'm not sure, really. One of my biggest problems with the previous team running Twitter was that they were happy to ban accounts if they disagreed with the politics of the account holder, while letting accounts post whatever they wanted, including rape and death threats, if the moderating team broadly agreed with their views. See the torrents of violent misogyny and hate aimed at JK Rowling that Twitter let stand. I don't know much about Kanye West but with Donald Trump, I think he should be allowed to have an account, yes. I don't agree with much he says, but he is a former US president and seems to still enjoy a fair amount of popularity. If he posts things against moderation rules, then delete them or ban him if he is posting incitements to violence. The moderation needs to be impartial. It hasn't been, it's been incredibly biased and I hope that changes.

I completely agree with you.

I don’t feel particularly strongly re Musk, I’m not on Twitter as I tend to swerve SM I don’t want to endorse, plus it’s not that interesting to me.

But I do think women have had a lot of what is being objected to now already aimed at them on there. Male threats, violence and it probably has influenced rl too.

I recall a footballer using legal system to arrest someone using death in words. Women seem to not have that protection and death, rape and violence are ten a penny

Whether that has changed recently I don’t know. But women know threats online and irl already.

“Re allowing content that incites violence, I'm afraid I saw a disturbing amount of that aimed at gender critical people, which was allowed, so I don't think that was something the previous moderators did anything about - depending, of course, on whether they agreed with the opinions of the person threatening others with rape and death.”

I mean, that’s just horrible isn’t it and I agree with people’s anger about that. I report so much on Twitter and maybe about 50% gets taken down. It’s not enough. Any threats of rape and death should be deleted along with the accounts. While it doesn’t stop people coming back, it should send a clear message about what’s acceptable, regardless of who it’s aimed at.

@Believeitornot I’ve had exactly the same problem. I’ve reported and blocked so many tweets that were racist/anti-semitic/death threats and still have to clear up dodgy content that pops up despite not being retweeted, liked or followed by anyone I follow. It’s got a bit better since I went into settings and checked my “interests” (or not!) where you can see what’s being pushed onto your timeline. There was some weird stuff on there! Bitcoin! American politicians! Windsurfing! (???)

I don't think Elon is a hero, who on earth would?

I don't think Twitter was a bastion of freedom and justice that he's broken, either.

There is a third position- Twitter was a partial cesspool allowing CSE and stochastic terrorism and violence against women.
Now it's being gutted and demystified, some dangerous crap has crept back in, along with some perfectly rational, acceptable but previously forbidden accounts.

We're going to have to wait and see what happens about the racism. Presumably it's subject to the same restrictions as other media. I believe (??) he's made it harder to be anonymous and have multiple accounts, which will require people to suffer consequences for anything illegal.

Presumably they'll take down all posts that threaten violence. That's a win.

And still that doesn't make him a hero.
It might make Twitter a better place.

Heh. Just looked at my Twitter account "interests" and apparently they include Aaron Ramsdale- who googling has told me is a footballer- and Aer Lingus. Random😂

@MarshaBradyo I think that’s why I care so much about the far right not getting a foothold. It’s not just the racism and anti-semitism and Kanye saying he loves Hitler etc (although that’s more than enough reason!), but while the far right may appear to align with GC views, it doesn’t take much for the mask to slip and the misogyny to show.

Earlier, I posted now-reinstated Neo Nazi Andrew Anglin’s opinion of women. As a refresher, he said he “hates women. I think they deserve to be beaten, raped and locked in cages.” I feel sick even writing that. He’s also orchestrated campaigns of real-life stalking and harassment against women.

What makes me feel a bit odd is that a couple of people have pulled me up for using the words “transphobia” and “stochastic terrorism” to describe what the far right are doing (I assume in case I am a TRA?) but no-one has much to say about his comments except a couple of people indirectly saying that this kind of “balance” is welcome. Is it worth this? Or am I a dinosaur that doesn’t understand that his personal opinion about and harassment of women doesn’t matter, as long as his free speech isn’t being repressed?

Earlier, I posted now-reinstated Neo Nazi Andrew Anglin’s opinion of women. As a refresher, he said he “hates women. I think they deserve to be beaten, raped and locked in cages.” I feel sick even writing that. He’s also orchestrated campaigns of real-life stalking and harassment against women.

Plenty of similar sentiments have been long allowed to stand when directed towards 'terfs' though.

All hate speech should be dealt with as the law directs. All of it.

Let's not pretend, however, that threatening violence towards women is a recent thing on Twitter or limited to those who would recognise themselves as right wing.

If stochastic terrorism has a meaning, I'm afraid it applies to the aggressive TRAs as much as anyone. I think sadly it's just a matter of time before a toxic mix of easy access to guns in the US and an environment of unchecked, rampant misogyny amongst TRA and MRA groups leads to a tragedy, with women as the victims (no change there).

No it's not acceptable for him to say those things on Twitter. Or even in his head, which of course we can't police.

Is that what he's saying on Twitter now, or what he's said in the past?

Peter Tatchel has said very dubious stuff about children and sex. He still gets published.

We don't ban people speaking because they said nasty stuff in the past.

And because these days everyone keeps receipts, your vile words don't get forgotten.

The correct response to anything Andrew Aglin says now is 'yeah, your words and opinions were vile, why would we care what you think?'

I totally read it as that until the poster suggested the opposite.

The stochastic terrorism aimed at gender critical women has had free expression on Twitter for years.

and now he can be the biggest troll there is without being banned
yep, he wont be able to help himself (what with being a teenage contrarian) and we'll all be able to see exactly what he is

This.

He thinks he's above the laws around employment rights and around misinformation. I hope companies desert the platform and he ends up with the most expensive white elephant in history.

Couldn't happen to a nicer chap ! 😊

The idea that he may make Twitter better is laughable quite frankly 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yep, as we’ve already seen, stochastic terrorism online has lead to attacks on asylum seekers and fatal attacks in the USA on gay and transgender people. It is indeed scary stuff.

@picklemewalnuts

“The correct response to anything Andrew Aglin says now is 'yeah, your words and opinions were vile, why would we care what you think?'”
Absolutely! Unfortunately people who agree with his message exist, so who decides what is too much and for who(m?). And I mean that as a rhetorical question, I don’t expect anyone to have the answer for that one!