to think Elon Musk is shining direct sunlight on a very grubby state of affairs?

[LondonWolf]

Just staggered at what's coming out tbh. When he first bought Twitter there were several lengthy threads on here lamenting that Twitter would soon move to the Right and be full of hate. Now it appears that no one was bothering to work on child protection, child sexual abuse and exploitation routinely unaddressed, and Twitter employees were working directly with the FBI and government to censor stories some which arguably had direct impacts on how people would vote. Are there any threads on here discussing what's coming out like there were screening about how horrific it was all going to be, because I can't see any?

Weird. It's right there when I google

repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3771&context=edissertations

“I'm talking about comments on Twitter which stay within the law.”

There’s no point to be won in refusing to understand or believe that those comments that stay technically within the law can still cause radicalisation and violence. Including towards women. Not by everyone who reads them, of course, but online radicalisation and incitement to violence doesn’t just happen by people saying stuff that egregiously breaks the law. Obviously. Because if that was the case, their message wouldn’t get anywhere.

As a related example, online porn becoming increasingly violent (choking etc) harms women in real life by normalising painful/violent sex acts in men’s minds. It’s not illegal, but it can still cause harm. I’m sure you wouldn’t advise women who’d been affected by that to laugh it off too.

"There’s no point to be won in refusing to understand or believe that those comments that stay technically within the law can still cause radicalisation and violence."

Oh I absolutely agree, which is why I was talking about the malign effect of Rupert Murdoch on the body politic over the last four decades. I remember things at were seen as the wilder extremes of National Front or BNP lunacy which are now mainstream Tory Party policy. Drip drip drip, from the front pages right into the hearts and minds of the Great British Public, immigrants, asylum seekers, the EU, all it takes is patientce and persistence.

So, even an old thicko like me gets it but that still leaves us with the difficult decision of who and why we decide don't get to use the public space that is Twitter? On what basis do Stephen Yaxley Lennon or Britain First get the boot? what are they saying that hasn't already been said by a tory front bencher?

Nancy Pelosi’s husband was attacked with a hammer from someone looking to “knee cap” her due to a sustained campaign against the democrats.

That's certainly one version of what may have happened but it's not the only one.

In Musk's defence, he's not attempting to release genetically modified mosquitoes or dim the sun, unlike Gates. And unlike Gates he doesn't get invited along to hobnob with senior global elected officials. Nor has he bought up huge amounts of US farmland.

@Dotellhimpike I very much doubt you’re an old thicko! We’re all just out here doing our best 😊

The reason BF got the boot would be whichever of the hateful conduct rules they violated on Twitter, if we’re talking about their twitter ban. This is from Twitter in 2017 when new rules came in, in a Sky News article about BF’s ban:

“In a company blog announcing Twitter's enforcement of new rules, the company said it would take action against "accounts that affiliate with organisations that use or promote violence against civilians to further their causes".

It added: "Groups included in this policy will be those that identify as such or engage in activity - both on and off the platform - that promotes violence.”
news.sky.com/story/amp/britain-first-members-suspended-from-twitter-11176509

and re Yaxley, from Al-Jazeera

“Facebook removed Robinson’s page and profiles in 2019 for posting material that used “dehumanizing language and call[ed] for violence targeted at Muslims”.”

If, on their return, they post nothing but cake recipes and knitting patterns, then wonderful. But if they continue to incite violence and hatred against minorities, should they be allowed a platform? That’s for twitter alone to decide now, and for the groups that BF target to take the brunt of, unfortunately.

Tory mp’s have been careful to stay just on the legal side of the line by using dehumanising language but stopping short of directly inciting violence, but of course comments about asylum seekers for eg being “illegal immigrants” (untrue) declaring small boat crossings illegal (untrue with a caveat about what you do upon arrival) describing boat crossings as an “invasion” has normalised hatred, which has ramped up the online rhetoric (because describing them as economic migrants, scum, rapists, terrorists, gangsters certainly isn’t illegal). More and more people see that rhetoric and start to believe it. And the stupid ones carry out acts of violence because they believe every word of it.

So I guess one solution would be to allow people to say what they like where they like as long as we inoculate people against stupidity from birth? 😬 That doesn’t feel safe either does it.

TL;DR accounts promoting violence were removed. Tory mp’s have (only just) stopped short of inciting violence.

the truth will out. It always does.

Here come the right wing morons clapping their free speech that they routinely shout about having taken away from them.
Musk is a shining example of two things: 1) that making that much money with not enough check’s & balances fucks people up and 2) that the right wing really are the worst of society.

Here come the right wing morons clapping their free speech that they routinely shout about having taken away from them.

Yet here you are with nothing more useful to add to the thread than ad hominems.

"If, on their return, they post nothing but cake recipes and knitting patterns, then wonderful. But if they continue to incite violence and hatred against minorities, should they be allowed a platform?"

As I said previously, and incitement to violence would be against the law, and I'd expect the platform to make sure anything on it was within the law. The other part of your sentence is trickier though, inciting hatred against minorities, even though we would both probably agree what that means in terms of immigrants, ethnic monorities, asylum seekers etc, we come back to the fact NIgel Farage was allowed on BBC Question time for how many appearances? No one is currently doing more to demonise and incite hatred against immigrants or asylum seekers than old Nigel but he's basically establishment now so how do you ban others for saying the same as he is saying?

Musk is a shining example of two things: 1) that making that much money with not enough check’s & balances fucks people up and 2) that the right wing really are the worst of society
word^

There have been many discussions about Twitter abuses on the Feminism boards for years. A sampling:

About pedophiles and child porn distributors allegedly being protected on Twitter:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3470976-Sunday-Times-covers-Paedophiles-on-Twitter?reply=

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3692388-Easy-as-PIE-the-rebranding-of-paedophilia-and-how-twitter-is-complicit?reply=90089291

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3529831-Twitter-is-a-porn-site?reply=85518527

About Amnesty International labelling Twitter institutionally misogynist and sexist:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3464241-The-Telegraph-Twitter-shares-tumble-after-short-seller-calls-it-The-Harvey-Weinstein-of-social-media-after-sexism-misogyny-identified-by-Amnesty?reply=83711396

Systemic anti-woman and anti-gay bias (among others) in Twitter moderation/banning:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3571054-Twitter-bans?reply=

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4530422-Twitter-ban-gay-rights-campaigner?reply=

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3426032-Meghan-Murphy-Feminist-Current-has-been-banned-from-Twitter-again?reply=84869730

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3613566-Meghan-Murphy-loses-case-against-twitter?reply=

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4235763-Twitter-women-and-Mary-Beard?reply=

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3483567-IMPORTANT-Chris-Ashton-It-seem-twitter-have-shadow-banned-FreedomProgramm-because-women-don-t-have-penises-Ensuring-women-cannot-access-the-support-they-need-in-crisis?reply=

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3828544-I-got-a-Twitter-suspension?reply=94102650

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3334595-The-thread-that-got-me-banned-from-Twitter-TRIGGER-WARNING-OFFENSIVE-CONTENT?reply=80189475

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3425876-And-then-they-came-for-Gendertrender?reply=82639865

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3555918-Jane-Clare-Jones-is-BAAAAAAACK?reply=86224382

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3405435-backlash-on-twitter?reply=82095306

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3202221-DrRadfem-aka-Venice-Allan-has-been-blocked-from-Twitter?reply=76565975

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3284251-Lisa-Muggeridge-Suspended-by-Twitter-and-Quoting-her-breaches-MN-Guidelines?reply=78828792

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3426053-Jack-Appleby-GC-apparently-silenced-by-Twitter?reply=82645853

About Twitter's endemic failure to protect women from misogynist abuse/threats of sexual violence:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3574580-Parliamentary-committee-Joanna-Cherry-SNP-MP-QC-challenge-to-Twitter-representative-about-abuse-of-women-terf-why-sex-is-not-protected-characteristic?reply=86753002

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3940494-J-K-Rowling-back-on-twitter-this-morning?reply=97548046

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4023633-the-awful-trend-on-twitter?reply=100013726

About AWAs/incels petitioning Twitter to ban feminist content:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4169109-Change-petition-in-place-to-remove-all-GC-voices-from-Twitter?reply=104812656

If you voted for Jeremy Corbyn you voted for someone who

• attended a memorial ceremony for those who castrated, tortured and killed Israeli athletes at the Munich olympics
• campaigned for the pardon and release of those who bombed a Jewish community centre in Finchley
• said that Jewish people couldn't understand 'English irony despite having lived here all [our] lives'
• uniquely, united all Jewish newspapers and community organisations and denominations in literally begging our non-Jewish compatriots not to elect him
• jeered and laughed at Jewish women MPs who were driven out of his party, under his watch
• donated to the officially antisemitic Rev Stephen Sizer
• appeared on Iranian state TV saying he saw 'the hand of Israel' in... just about everything
• wrote a glowing foreword praising a book that said Jews have started all of the wars in the world
• told Raeed Salah, promoter of the blood libel, that he would love to take him to tea on the terrace of the House of Commons
• etc etc et bloody cetera

So frankly you may consider yourself 'far left' rather than 'far right' but it's a fucking horsehoe as far as I, and all the other actual Jews (as opposed to fake 'asaJews') I know, are concerned.

And as a gender critical feminist Londoner raising mixed-heritage kids of both sexes, if you voted for Jeremy Corbyn, you are not and will never be my friend or my ally, regardless of what other views we share

@Dotellhimpike Oh and your lovely friend Jeremy was completely loved-up with 'Lily' Madigan and completely on board with TWAW. So really, you ought to treat the Jews as the canary in the mine again here. Because the fucking cunts that demonise us will demonise you too, in time.

Honestly, the idea of someone who voted for Jeremy fucking Corbyn objecting to Tommy Robinson would be funny if it wasn't such a massive kick in the teeth to all Jews.

Because we do not feel one bit fucking safer with your lovely white, posh, middle-class, pinch-mouthed, messiah with his obvious distaste and contempt for Jews, than we do with the obvious fucking Nazis who wear their swastikas with pride instead of a very, very thin film of pretending to be fucking saints.

Lovely Jeremy and Piers Corbyn, of course, not at all 'establishment' fucksake.

www.tatler.com/gallery/jeremy-corbyn-posh-background

@Dotellhimpike

Please acknowledge this since it is, at least at this point, spreading disinformation. The dissertation is right there on the website.

repository.upenn.edu/edissertations/1985/

So if a woman reports she has been raped or assaulted do you consider it 'one version of what may have happened but it's not the only one'?

Fucking unreal.

It was removed but has since been reinstated.

www.timesofupdate.com/yoel-roths-gay-data-thesis-mistakenly-blocked-on-upenn-site-after-elon-musk-tweet/

Yes, and I disagree with him on this issue. Despite being told repeatedly I regard him as a messiah figure, I think he's human and fallible, just as you and I are. I'd still vote for him as PM again tomorrow if I were given the chance to do so.

So if a woman reports she has been raped or assaulted do you consider it 'one version of what may have happened but it's not the only one'?

What's that got to do with anything? By all means tell me why I'm wrong about this particular instance. Just stop with the false equivalence.

Yes, I would imagine it was removed after the allegations were made so they could check it. But I keep seeing people posting that it's been removed so think it's worth mentioning that it's right there for anyone to read.

It's not a false equivalence. It's an actual equivalence.

"Yes, I would imagine it was removed after the allegations were made so they could check it. But I keep seeing people posting that it's been removed so think it's worth mentioning that it's right there for anyone to read."

That's a fair point, and thank you for correctly pointing out it has been reinstated.

I’m loving his courage to be upfront about what a hellhole Twitter is.

The big one is the government trying and succeeding to control media. Anyone who doesn’t see a problem with that has really not thought about it in any detail

it’s an absolute disaster

Zuckerberg has also admitted they did the same to Facebook.,

Not good.

doesn’t really matter what you think of Musk. What do you think of that?