My neighbours are scraping ice at 10.30PM

[Tuvala]

light hearted - ish 😆

It’s frozen solid here, road is an ice rink. Neighbours are 60’s and both retired, nice couple but probably retired too soon as both seem frequently bored!
For the past 45 mins they have both been outside in -3 scraping ice off the steps, the car and god knows what else.
I was a bit concerned they had somewhere they needed to get to so popped out to ask if they needed help with anything but no, they aren’t going anywhere!
I’ve since gone to bed and the loud scraping noises are driving me potty.
What on earth are they doing it for?!
Do they want to fall on the ice or get hypothermia? Or are they just trying new ways to drive me round the bend .
Aaaarghhh!!

Maybe they are expecting to need to go out in the night? Like their daughter is pregnant and near to going into labour?? So thought it would be best to do it now to be prepared? Only saying this because this is totally something my parents would do and they are the ones we call to have the kids when I’ve gone into labour.

Judging by this tread scraping ice is irritating for your neighbours too, as is pouring warm water on it. Maybe you can suggest a non irritating way to de ice cars?

😁😁😁

I also think that it is highly likely that they are aware that if their own postman/Amazon delivery driver/milkman (some people do still have milkmen) etc, slip on their drive/steps/path and hurts themselves, then your neighbour may very well be liable for any damage they have done to themselves on your neighbours property. As they probably don't want to get up at 5.30am to clear it all away then, they are doing it now, and will almost certainly put down a lot of salt or grit to hopefully stop it from refreezing.

That would be quite foolish of them. They couldn't be held liable for natural ice/frost on their path because it's not a condition they have created, and the assumption is that delivery people take their own precautions. On the other hand, by clearing the path they run the risk of leaving a layer of black ice which would be a more serious hazard because it wouldn't be visible, and they could be liable for that.

I put warm water in a ziplock bag and then move it over the windscreen/ windows. Works a treat.

You'll need to do an update this morning OP.

Is the ice all back or do they still have clear path.

(my thought was they are expecting an early delivery, guests etc this morning so cleared then salted it). But I do live in the southern hemisphere so it's not something I ever have to put too much thought into.

Maybe they are going stargazing or seeing northern lights, depending on where you live, DH goes out sometimes late at night to dark spots, the cold and ice wouldn't stop him, in fact he was sorting out his cameras yesterday for this

I'd like to see your source for this please, given that gov.uk says this is unlikely.

www.gov.uk/clear-snow-road-path-cycleway

Er, that link was www.gov.uk/clear-snow-road-path-cycleway

Seriously, Mumsnet? https://www.gov.uk/clear-snow-road-path-cycleway

It's a £20 fine for idling your car to defrost it

This isn’t good. If something (car crashes, someone slips over) was to happen, they would be liable. That’s why the councils always tell people not to do the pavements or roads outside their houses. It’s also a bit concerning that they are out there so late, in such cold weather. I’m assuming they have all their faculties intact?

You missed the MN memo where even by continuing to breathe the elderly person next door fucks the MNer off. It's a thing.

I'll ask again, unless they're doing it negligently, what makes them liable?

I understood that the reason the councils tell you not to do it is because they don't have liability insurance if YOU fall over while clearing it, so they can't encourage it.

They don't actually give a donkeys.

The actual scientific fact?

Who doesn’t enjoy a good night time ice scraping? I do it every winter while blasting Mariah Carey. 🤶🎄

That's a genius idea - will give it a go later

🤣

Because most people don’t have public liability insurance, council bylaws are quite strict. If you clear your path for the postman to walk up and he slips and breaks his leg, you’re liable because you didn’t clear the path correctly, which is complete BS but anyway. If you don’t clear the path and he slips and breaks his leg, it’s a force of nature/act of God. Same for the pavement and the roads.

If the postie is walking on the pavement that has been cleared by the council and slips and breaks his leg, the council are liable but will prove by whatever means they have, that they did clear the pavement correctly, by using grit or whatever and thus, they are not liable. When the neighbours have cleared the road, have they cleared it correctly? If not, there could be patched of black ice, which form at night and someone could crash the car, slip, whatever. Because the neighbours cleared the ice, presumably by scraping and perhaps didn’t grit afterwards, they would have to prove that they cleared the pavement and the road exactly as the council would have.

As I said, it’s complete BS, until it’s your car or leg or whatever but it’s in all council bylaws, simply to protect the council from liability for your actions.

Oooooo!!!!

Me too. I keep it in the garage though unless it’s on charge.

Start my car up to scrap the windows, the front has a cover so it's okay, albeit freezing to take off. I do it at 5am Monday to Friday. If the neighbours hear, they hear.

I'd be interested in reading these byelaws, because that's not what I've been reading on council websites.

The only google results I get are all in Canada.

As an example, this is a quote from Tower Hamlets council.

Will I be held liable if someone falls on a path I have cleared?
There is no law preventing you from clearing snow and ice on the pavement outside your property, pathways to your property or public spaces.
It is very unlikely that you would face any legal liability, as long as you are careful, and use common sense to ensure that you do not make the pavement or pathway clearly more dangerous than before. People using areas affected by snow and ice also have responsibility to be careful themselves.

This a million times