To think ofsted means nowt and year 1s should recognise numbers to 20?

[GarlicSauce]

DS3 is in yr 1 at an outstanding school. It's a job share in a mixed ages class yr1/2 with an NQT doing Monday-weds and another teacher doing Thursday/Friday. It's been a fairly disastrous year and the whole cohort seem behind. DS can't recognise any numbers past 10 consistently. I'm going to do a whole lot more with him but there's no SEN and none of the class seem to be any better. Most kids have been on the same reading books since last spring and haven't moved up. A significant number have moved down. The Thursday/Friday teacher is moving into another classroom so we will have cover teachers until Feb half term. Do we bite the bullet and pay for private? We could just about swing it. His older brothers did state until secondary and did fine but this school seems chaotic.

@Bumperr you must know that it is unusual that 3yo would know the numbers up to 100.That is the requirement for end of Y1

A year 1 child reading Harry Potter is very unlikely. Almost unbelievable. Many students I teach in secondary school are reading that.

The OP - I agree it's a problem. Have you gone down the channels at school to address? Ie, spoken to HT following class teachers?

Is there not another (better) state school instead of private?

I am definitely not a pushy parent! Pretty much the opposite. He wanted to read Harry Potter, he understood it all. Has moved slowly through them and now in Yr 3 and on the last one. Why are they not ‘suitable?’ I was reading Lord of the Rings at 7 so it runs in the family - HP is certainly not an unsuitable text.

I had to read this again! I think @Wronglane is being generous. I meet parents often who tell me what their child can read. Very rare it's correct.

Statutory ECT time is a lot less than a day. It does sound like she is part time of she is only teaching 3 days.

@Wronglane could they do a reading comprehension exercise based on normal reading age of HP

Sent too quickly! Agree re being too formal at Y1! It shouldn’t be at this point in the year especially.

Wait someone has said Harry Potter is suitable for y1?

No it isn't. Absolutely not.

And this is why I HE.

30 kids aren't all "behind". They learn in their own time and nothing more. I certainly wouldn't be wasting money on private school over something like this tbh

This can't be true, surely?!
My Reception age twins can recognise numbers up to 100.
Why is the bar set so low for kids in this country?!

I’m maths lead at my school (for context) and I would say he/the class sound a little behind but not drastically. White rose is the most popular scheme of work at the moment with many schools following it and looking at the y1 curriculum for autumn term they do place value and addition and subtraction to 20 before Christmas, moving on to numbers up to 100 gradually throughout the year. So if they can’t recognise numbers to 20 by Christmas yes, they probably are a bit behind. However arguably numbers 11-19 are the hardest to learn and understand as they don’t follow our counting pattern like 20 onwards do.

of course some preschoolers can count to 100 or whatever (mine is one of them) but that doesn’t mean they have the deep understanding that the y1 curriculum will teach. The poster saying her child mixes up 28 and 82 is a classic example (my daughter does it too), they don’t understand place value. Which is fine, they’re 3. But this is what the y1 and 2 curriculum will cover. It will also look at comparing numbers, counting on and back, breaking numbers up in different ways (so 5 can be 1+4, 2+3 etc) and so on. Not just saying numbers and writing them. All of this is the foundation of decent mental maths skills later.

ECTs can definitely be part time, I know people who did this. It just takes longer to complete it (or did back when it was called NQT anyway).

Harry Potter for y1 is clearly ridiculous and only very few children will be able to read it (and even fewer understand it at any meaningful level). A child talking about it was used as an example for a child achieving greater depth in y2 a few years back and was widely slated by teachers for being a useless example as the child was quite clearly way way way way ahead and no use in helping them decide if their borderline children were greater depth or not, which was the purpose of the video.

It's not. Your twins may fall behind next year. It's just understanding that not all children peak at the same time.

Ok I’ll step away. I’m not lying. I didn’t think it was particularly unusual. Some of his friends have read it too. Yes he understood it. He became obsessed and wrote his own stories based around it. It’s not some weird show off. Considering none of you know me or him that would be utterly pointless. As I say I read well so maybe he just does too. Im not a genius and I doubt he is. As you were, let’s forget I mentioned it.

Agree.
Plenty of 6/7 year olds could read the words, but they won't really understand a lot of the context and the bigger storyline.

ECT time is two hours in the first year and 1 in the scone. PPA is 2 hours. ECTs can be part time. You can’t possibly know what is happening with the whole class because you volunteer twice a week to listen to children read. If you aren’t happy with your child’s progress, you need to deal with that. Don’t worry about the rest of the class. Children learn and grasp things at different times. Please remember that.

Children are still learning phonics in Y1

This! It’s all about working with numbers, not recognising them. Knowing that 3 makes the sound ‘three’ is meaningless unless you know what * is.

So often parents say how good their child is at maths and that in nursery that could count to 100, but they had no concept of value. Show that child two bowls, one with a few counters in and one with lots, then ask them which one has 36 and which has 12 in and they don’t know because they have no concept of value. They just say number names in order.

PPA i]time is 10% of teaching time. In most schools this is 2,5 hours for a full time teacher. In the first year the additional time for an ECT is an addition 10%, reducing to 5% extra in their second year.

Our full time teachers receive 2,5 hours PPA.
Our first year full time ECT receive 5 hours in their first year. Second year we aim for 5 hours, it's sometimes reduced slightly, but not often and not every week.

Your solution is to go private??
maybe start by talking to the teacher, then the head.
maybe consider another local primary school?
going private seems extreme.

That was meant to say ‘knowing that *** is’.

@PriamFarrl same with reading, all because their child can read words they think their child can read all books without taking into account them understanding all the nuances in the story

Is there Kumon in your area, if that's still a thing.

@Abraxan 5 hours ECT time! That would be lovely. I’m lucky if I get 1. As for for PPA, again I said 2 hours because that’s what I am supposed to get (just under the 10%) but again lucky if I get 1-1.5

Exactly. I’ve known a child who had read all of HP by 8. Couldn’t name a character let alone recall the plot.

A child who doesn’t have English or even Arabic numbers as their first language can be equally good at maths. Know that the sound for 5 is five means nothing unless you know that 🍎 🍎 🍎 🍎 🍎 is 5.

As a parent volunteer I would listen to children go through a reading report on a book they had read. I had the memorable one where a child told me about the tiger in the story. The book was ‘The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe’! There was even a clue in the title