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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be annoyed that a stranger lined my children up and took their picture in the park without asking permission?

273 replies

IlanaK · 01/02/2008 14:31

In Regent's park today with a friend. Three boys all way ahea dof us on the path scootering. A group of tourist men lined them up with the stream and trees as backdrop and took their phot before we could get to them.

They got a right telling of from me though.

Was I being unreasonable?

OP posts:
stuffitall · 02/02/2008 17:51

and redadmiral..
see bossybritches comment

paedophiles cut and paste the laughing faces of children on to tortured images of abused children to make it seem as though they are enjoying it

you are being glib

loulou33 · 02/02/2008 17:56

HIya,

my dh is a photographer and i asked him about this, he said that you should always ask permission of 'joe public' [or their parents if they are under 16 regardless of how 'able' they are] if they are recognisable in a picture you take. Ie you couldn't ask all the people who might be on Oxford Street whilst your taking a picture and you probably wouldn't be able to recognise most of them but you would if it is a small group of people IYSWIM. Its something to do with then publishing the photo - the person could sue you if you had not asked their permission . this does not apply to celebs as by being 'famous' they have given implicit consent to being in the public eye and therefore photos as long as you are not invading their privacy ie taking snaps through their bathroom window...most paparrazzi photographers sail close to the wind but rarely get sued to take a few extra risks.....phew i think that's it

YANBU IMO and i might have called the police if i thought they were in the slighest bit dodgy ie not obviously tourists. However, brits abroad have got into serious trouble for not observing local culture and guess part of ours now is, sadly you can't take pictures of other peoples children without asking first

redadmiral · 02/02/2008 18:00

I am being glib, because I don't see this as a serious risk to my child, and I think that the vast majority of people taking pictures in parks are camera enthusiasts or tourists. With digital cameras there has been a huge surge in the popularity of photography, and in spite of what you might think, those people have a legal right to enjoy their hobby. Parks are a great place to take pictures and I don't have a problem with it. I've let tourists take pictures of my children in Regent's Park and I am not worried about it in the least.

hercules1 · 02/02/2008 18:01

But if someone has done that to a picture of my child then they are not actually abusing my child. I'm not sure tbh how I would have felt about the op but I don't go with the whole don't let your kids stop and talk to anyone thing.

stuffitall · 02/02/2008 18:02

Well that's ok. Let's make it as easy for them as possible. I bet they wish everyone was as accomodating as you are.

loulou33 · 02/02/2008 18:06

redadmiral - this is one of the problems with the surge in amatuer photographraphy. its a great hobby but you just can't take pictures of people that freely anymore and i'm not sure how many hobby photographers know how much trouble (legal and financial)they could be in if they knew the full impllcations of what they are doing. they have a legal right to enjoy themselves of course, but they can't take and store photos of recognisable people without getting their informed consent - sad i know but true. this is why dh is landscape and art photographer and won't take picures of people except family at all - too much hassle!!!

redadmiral · 02/02/2008 18:07

Hi Loulou,

I think it is good manners to ask if you are taking a pic of a child deliberately, but I don't believe it's against the law. It would only be problematic if you published it. (Actually would be great if you could find out form him if I'm right here That seems to be what he's saying I think, and it's what I've understood before.)

Some photographers have been abused and attacked for just taking pictures in a park, with no children as the object of the pictures. I do think that people are unnecessarily paranoid about htis.

seeker · 02/02/2008 18:07

Do I understand you? Do you never let your child ever talk to strangers?

For example, my 6 year old was skipping through town in his football kit today. An elderly man on a bench said "hello Beckham, how was the match?" Ds regaled him with a blow by blow account of the match and his goals, showed off his Player of the Match trophy - and it was an interraction which brightened both their days. In your world, I should presumably have dragged ds away - glaring at the man and teliing ds off for talking to strangers!

redadmiral · 02/02/2008 18:08

X-posts. Would really like clarification of this though.

loulou33 · 02/02/2008 18:12

Hi redadmiral - you're partly right - its not just publishing them but if you are storing them you still need to ask. ie dh has 10k photos and people often come to the studio to browse through various categories - if he showed a picture of someone to another person i think he would legally have to ask them beacuse these pictures are for sale and that is implicit in them being stored on his work computer - phew. Dont' know if anyone has been sued but i think i might if i knew someone i didn't know had a pic of ds without my consent...will double check though

loulou33 · 02/02/2008 18:17

Just found the tome called photgraphy and the law - too heavy to pick up let alone read - i guess it might be more complicated than i or others assumed....

redadmiral · 02/02/2008 18:17

Just looked it up, and it seems that in UK it's not illegal to take the picture in a public place, OR publish it (though most potential buyers want a model release now.) It MAY be something that comes under the law about keeping data on someone if it's a recognisable picture, but photography is PROBABLY protected under law if it's for art or journalism. Phew!

I can understand why your DP wouldn't want the kind of hassle though, especially after reading this thread.

Ubergeekian · 02/02/2008 18:19

stuffitall: "these people transpose pictures of kids they see onto all sorts of things"

That's just bogeyman stuff. Sure, there may be a very, very small number of people who do this, but to think that everyone who takes a child's picture is off to glue it onto porn is just daft. How many of "these people" do you think there are?

stuffitall: "taking pictures of strange children is not an innocent and kindly act"

What, never?

stuffitall: "what about a stranger offering your child sweets? that could be, to a child, "innocent and kindly"

You never know, maybe it is innocent and kindly. I have absolutely no problem at all with strangers talking to my son or offering him things (thanks for the pringles, student on the train last week). Since he's only 20m, we're always around. When he gets bigger the rule will be "Don't take things from strangers unless Mummy or Daddy is there".

"so instead of telling them not to talk to strangers, let's tell them not to talk to the most likely offenders, not to accept lifts from teachers, people they see around school, other people's fathers, youth group leaders... because they're more realistic offenders in terms of my child"

They are not the most likely offenders.

You. Are.

And the attitude you seem to be espousing - "Don't look at my child. Don't talk to my child. Keep away from my child." - is precisely the one which has led to numerous child deaths over the years, at the hands of their parents. Fred and Rosemary West's own children were kept away from strangers for very good reasons.

Chequers · 02/02/2008 18:32

Message withdrawn

loulou33 · 02/02/2008 18:42

Hi redadmiral - its' not 'illegal' as in criminal law but i think you could be sued under civil law - human rights violation i think and data protection act ie storing identifiable info on someone without their consent.

The police (ie criminal proceedings) would only be interested if you had lots of dodgy pictures or they thought you might be dodgy. the only thing would be civil proceedings which are long, protracted and very expensive to defend yoursef against.

kel78 · 02/02/2008 18:47

No. I would deff not like a group of men lining up my children to take pictures ot them. You are deff not being unreasonable you are just trying to protect your children. Unfortunatley this is the world our children have to grow up in and although it was probably harmless who's gonna take that chance. I certanly wouldnt. Ring the police just to make them aware of what happened.

morningpaper · 02/02/2008 18:53

(The scene: a peeder's flat in peederland)

Peeder1: Well that's great, we've got all these pictures of those other children being abused, but shit, where can we get some pictures of smiling children?

Peeder2: What about Kew Gardens? We can dress up as Tourists!

Peeder1: OMG that is a great idea! Let's go!

redadmiral · 02/02/2008 18:56

Thanks loulou

morningpaper · 02/02/2008 18:58

I've had people give my children sweets twice - both times at the same place (a national trust garden that we frequent) and both times German tourists.

Obviously I assumed they were peados and stabbed them through the heart with a stake.

It didn't bother me at all. How could it possibly be bad? What possible Bad Thing could happen?

cutekids · 02/02/2008 19:12

i was asked by two German/Dutch? men once if they could photograph dd2 (she was about 3 then i didn't think anything of it at the time but i have since wondered what they wanted that photo for. hopefully it was perfectly innocent. i told my hubbie about it-weeks later-and he wasn't too happy about it. thing is,when these situations rise you don't always have time to think.

carrieon · 02/02/2008 19:22

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all, although I'd like to think the best and that it was just cultural. We've just got back from Brazil where children are the centre of everything (having one can get you to the front of a queue, fast-track your visa application, that sort of thing!) We were regularly 'mugged' in shops for dd who usually rides on dh's shoulders. She is 10 months old, fair with lots of curly hair and a big grin and people think its their right to have a play. The mananger of a pharmacy we went into even elbowed one of her inferiors out of the way in the name of having the first cuddle. We didn't try and fight it, just basked in reflected glory at having produced a cutie!
But its not cultural in the UK, and those people need to learn that, so no, you're not being unreasonable.

Desiderata · 02/02/2008 19:29

Inferiors??

BaronessHardup · 02/02/2008 19:31
morningpaper · 02/02/2008 19:34

It is not cultural into the UK only since we started believing that all men want to have sex with our children.

Still, I'm sure the rest of the world will respect that.

bohemianbint · 02/02/2008 19:34

I don't like the idea of anyone having pictures of me if I don't know them - but then I'm a bit superstitious like that...