To wonder if I’m the toxic one

[Nomorechocolateorange]

Just feeling really sad about family situation today.

imagine two women. The first one has a fantastic relationship with her mum. They do everything together - holidays, spa days, lunches. Her mum is her biggest supporter and is always there for her. She is a wonderful grandmother to her two children and sees them all the time and totally spoils them. This woman thinks she has the best mother in the world and will defend her to the hilt if anyone says otherwise.

The second woman has always been hated by her mum who has said and done some of the nastiest, most hurtful things imaginable during her life until she went NC a few years ago. When this woman was caught up in a seriously physically and emotionally abusive relationship her mother refused to help her and when she finally managed to get out of it her mother told her there must be something about her that caused her abuser to behave that way and that her sister would never have found herself in that situation. Throughout her childhood her mother told her she hated her and when she got pregnant told her she couldn’t imagine a baby in there but a disgusting tumour growing. And on and on into adulthood. This woman’s mother does not acknowledge her grandchildren even on birthdays since going NC.

It probably won’t surprise you that I’m the second woman and the first woman is my sister.

I don’t know what’s set me off today but it just occurred to me that I would always have described my family as toxic. But once I went NC and took myself out of the picture they’re actually a really happy, loving family with my dad and so I can’t help wondering if, if it’s me that makes the whole thing toxic, then I am the toxic one?

I honestly don’t think I deserved the way my mum treated me this way and just struggling with everything this morning.

From the what you've said about the way your mum has treated you, I think it's very unlikely you are the toxic one. Sounds appalling. Sorry you've had to experience this.

Oh my word. I'm so sorry you experienced that.

But no, your mother is the toxic one. You were a child and she was treating you like that. There is no justification for it at all.

I've heard about this before - one child is the scapegoat and the other(s) can do no wrong. Honestly, there is nothing a child could have done to warrant that.

Please don't give this any headspace.

so sorry you’ve been through this OP. Your sister is the golden child and you are the scapegoat.

Your mother is the toxic one and because your sister is the golden child she will never see it. You’re right to be as low contact as possible.

It’s the family dynamic. For whatever reason they didn’t like you (I’ve read on here about someone who was hated because theFather had an affair while the mother was pregnant with her).

They are toxic to you but it seems their narrative is the one people listen to. You need to see them how they are, be around happy, positive people and love your own family. You can’t change them. You can’t make them love you. You probably don’t even like them.

My other half spends every Christmas being regaled with anecdotes of times he didn’t save sibling from doing something silly (while he was a young child himself) which makes him an”abuser”. Never mind the physical and mental abuse he suffered, the kidnap, the three days asleep when they drugged him etc. Sometimes you just have to walk away.

Also, some families are just a bad fit for each other. I heard this description on Triplets the other day. It’s possible you don’t fit into the family dynamic.

As long as you care, you will be hurt by them. The moment you see that they WANT you to be hurt, they ENJOY you being hurt and they aren’t going to change you can stop giving the drugs they want so badly (your pain which makes them feel important). Just let it go. Also read about scapegoats and golden children.

My answer is skewed by the fact I am NC with my mother and do not, and will never believe that all mothers are good, or deserving of a relationship. I just don't think it is possible for a woman who tells their child such horrible and nasty things to have a healthy relationship. I just don't.

Even taking away everything else children need to be protected and nurtured. This is not expecting too much, this is not if you are lucky, this is minimum requirement stuff and she failed massively with this. And you are the one who paid the price for this.

I think there may be a few things going on - Your going NC may have caused your DM to double down with the relationship with your DS, and in my experience how the relationship looks is far more important than how it actually is for some people. If you were the scapegoat (and it sounds like you were), that space is going to have to be taken up in some way and by some person. A scapegoat absorbs a lot of the negative feelings and they will still be there. Believe me - nothing has changed with regards to this. These feelings will still be there - you just aren't there to take them on anymore.

You aren't the toxic one - You will need support though and to find a way through this. I'm sorry you went through that.

You have just described my life too, I like you am the second sister.
Its really, really shit, isn’t it? It hurts even more when you look back and realise when you have gone NC they are painting a really happy family life picture. In my situation they use it as the ‘proof’ that I am the crazy one.
My life with them was exactly like yours, insults, told by my mum she wished she had an abortion, loved it if things went wrong for me, gave me absolutely no encouragement or support, was extremely cruel. My sister however, was treated like a princess and was treated the complete opposite. Nothing I ever did was good enough. You do end up questioning if it’s you. My sister fully took my mothers side at the point of NC. I thought I was close to my sister, I was an even bigger support to my sister than our own mother. It hurts.
Both yours and my mother are the toxic ones though, because no decent mother would treat us the way we were treated. Decent parents love all of their children and aren’t cruel. I would never treat my children differently to each other.

Your mother sounds absolutely horrible and deranged. I’m so sorry. Are you NC with your sister and father too? I wouldn’t be able to forgive them for not standing up for me. Get some therapy, build up your own support system with friends and concentrate on your children. Well done for surviving an abusive relationship, you sound lovely.

Your mother is the toxic one. Where is your Dad in all of this? Does he not protect you? Also your sister seems complicit in it all.

I don't think it's uncommon for one child to be favoured over the other. But it's not nice.

You could be describing my inlaws. My husband has always been second class to his sister (who is totally lovely). Their mother is awful and even when called out on it is unable to accept that she has ever been less than perfect. She seems to paint a narrative that she is the perfect grandmother to all her grandchildren despite never having anything to do with us unless it's an Instagram worthy photo opportunity. I have as little contact as possible but husband stays in touch despite every phone call leaving him devastated that he is not as good as his sibling and knowing his parents just don't care. Sending you much love OP I highly doubt it's you.

I went NC with my family, after 2 years of therapy and attempts to communicate and reconcile behaviours.

I Am a much happier content person today because of it.

Don’t blame anyone, including yourself, some families don’t fit together and if you have half a brain you know right from wrong, and when things are wrong, trust your instincts, believe in yourself and step away and move on without them.

There’s no guidebook for being a perfect parent and just endeavour to not make the same mistakes with your own kids but be prepared that you will make other mistakes and you aren’t perfect either.

It was surprising to me that once i stopped blaming myself and then when i truly understood, stopped blaming them, that taking blame out of it, just accepting it, that the NC was the easy bit and haven’t looked back or felt any remorse or need to accept them back when occasionally one reaches out. Toxic has no place in anyone’s life, and life is just too damn short.

That doesn’t sound like a mum who has tried to nurture, maintain or repair a troubled relationship, whatever the stressors at any point. She sounds cruel. That sounds really tough. You’re way better off out of that.

To create such a division between how two siblings are treated I would imagine your mother may be narcissistic.
so they need one golden child whom they see as someone who reflects them in their best light. The other child has to hold all their bad feelings of self hate and self doubt. I was also that scape goat so you have my sympathy. It’s nothing you have or haven’t done. So don’t see yourself as toxic. The less contact you have with them the better you will feel.

Thank you everyone, I feel so much better after reading your posts. ChocolateBauble I’m so sorry you went through the same thing. You’re right, they do use their happy family dynamic as proof that I’m the problem I think.

My dad and my sister are my mums biggest enablers. They excuse all of her horrendous behaviour or suggest that I’m misremembering or exaggerating. I don’t speak to either of them now, it’s impossible to have a relationship with someone who has allied themselves with a person who has treated me so horribly.

I'd ignore the voting as your YABU/YANBU question can be taken either way!

I've had family members tell me I've misremembered things my mum said and did to me too. You start to doubt yourself after a while.

You're definitely better off without them. You don't need to inflict their toxicity on your happy little family

No, you’re not toxic and I’m so sorry you have been treated this way. You didn’t and still don’t deserve it, from any of them.

Please be gentle with yourself. You deserve to be treated with love and respect 💐

I am sorry.
google borderline personality disorder and see if you think this applies to your mum.

Even if you were toxic (and it doesn’t sound like it), nothing in the world would justify the way your mother has treated you. Her treatment of you was appalling.

You are internalising this narrative which has clearly come from your mother.

I think you need therapy to help deal with this. You need to get your mum’s “voice” out of your head.

Are you both from the same father? Why would your mother describe you as a tumour and not your sister when she was pregnant with her?

I watched an interesting interview yesterday with a psychologist that was talking about why within a family one sibling might be a narcissist and the other not when they both had the same parents and experienced the same upbringing. He said they didn’t have the ‘sane parents’ as every child will get a different set of parents depending on what’s happening in those parents lives at the time.

Do my sibling (who I’m estranged from) had a totally different upbringing than myself. When she was born my parents had just experienced a HUGE upheaval. Money was extremely tight. My mother had mental health issues etc etc. by the time I came along things were far better. Thus our upbringings were very different and her bad memories don’t exist for me.

Your mum was awful to you. There is nothing you could possibly have done to warrant how she treated you. No child is toxic. She emotionally abused you when you were a young, vulnerable child. If anything 'caused' the abusive relationship it's being treated terribly from a young age by your mom (and your dad allowing it to happen). There could be any number of reasons your mom singled you out for the horrible treatment (postnatal depression, birth order, perhaps you reminded her of herself/some other abusive family member, mental illness, personality disorder) whatever the reason it isn't your fault and you're the victim. I would invest in therapy (take time to find a reall good therapist you bond with) and avoid seeing or hearing about any of them ever again.

It sounds like classic toxic parent golden/ scapegoat child territory.

I've not taken the brunt of any extremes but it has happened in my family and even as someone less enmeshed in it, it's still hard to see.

If you're unlucky, family are like classmates, you're randomly thrown in together for a prolonged, inescapable number of years. It's just more socially acceptable to walk away from classmates at the end of it and say thank goodness you don't have to see them again.

Things often aren't as rosey for the golden child as they seem. They tend to end up with a deeply enmeshed relationship that can't be met by others. When that relationship changes or ends (ill health, death) they can't get those needs met heathily. Personal relationships can suffer because they're imbalanced and not self-sufficient. They often struggle to be self-sufficient individuals with healthy wider relationships. It's just much harder to recognise the damage.

Sounds like a typical narcissistic family structure.

Eldest child is usually the golden child - can do no wrong. On the surface this appears great for them but it’s actually just as damaging and uncomfortable if they’re any sort of a decent person (this was my role in my family of origin and it’s caused me years of therapy unpicking the damage).

One child in the family is usually the scapegoat - all the ills and dysfunction of the family get projected onto them which is obviously very overtly damaging. This seems to be your role in your family.

It isn’t your fault at all.

It was your parents’ responsibility to meet your emotional needs, to nourish you, to treat you as the unique individual you are.

Many many parents are simply not equipped or aware enough to be good enough parents, or they’re too stressed or have too much of their own unmet needs to be able to be present for you.

I would read up on

• narcissistic family structure
• emotional needs
• emotional neglect
• look up @ Jeanpsychologist and @ Nicolesachslcsw on Instagram if you’re on there as they both put a lot of this into words, which is a helpful step for coming to terms with it.

You might have plenty of ‘oh no this is terrible!’ moments as you read, but know that intellectual awareness is the first step to healing, and when you’re able to put into words what was wrong about your childhood you begin to feel it in your body - and that’s when you begin to heal.

YABU - you are definitely not the toxic one from the situation described.

Your mother’s behaviour is genuinely shocking to read. Calling your baby a disgusting tumour is utterly appalling. I cannot fathom how people can treat their children like that.

They’re the cunts. All of them. And I hope their cruelty catches up with them.

No matter how much you remove yourself from them, your position in the family is still there, you as the scapegoat still take all the "ills" from your mother. That is why they are able to be "happy".

It's not you, it's them.

I think it’s hard to judge, as often the ‘black’ sheep of the family exaggerates, and perceives snubs where there are none.

Even the way this is written is done so to garner sympathy, so I’m not convinced you’re being objective.