Irish v English Primary Teachers/School... Wildly different experiences.

[bunnybabies]

I am a Primary Teacher working in Ireland. I go to work at 910 and finish/leave at 250. If a parent wants to speak to me, they ring the secretary and make an appointment to do so, either by phone or in person.Always during school hours. If a parentt has a grievance, they first speak with me and then if not satisfied arrange another meeting with Principal Teacher and Class Teacher. I am a regular user of MN and am genuinely stunned at the access that parents have to Class Teacher and the school in England, generally.Parents at the school in which I work are not allowed into the building randomly.Again, a meeting is set up if needed. There is no such thing as emailing, social media contact or otherwise outside of working hours. From what I read on here, my experiences in the school I teach in, are wildly different.I am interested to know how things work at your children's school or indeed at your place of work, as a teaching staff member.Thanks.

I've never needed to ask for a meeting, and we're definitely not allowed in to the school, children are dropped and collected at the gate. The gate is managed by TA's and there are some pushy mothers always pecking at the over something.

We have an app called Dojo and you can message the teacher, she'll normally get back in a day or 2. She'll also send out messages about remembering to bring in wellies to be left at school or whatever.

There's definitely a sense of entitlement on here that teachers should be at the beck and call of parents. I'm grateful for the twice a year 10 minute slot on Teams for parents evenings, but some seem to want weekly updates!

We use Dojo as well to message the teacher who usually replies by the end of the workday. We also have an email address for the school office for more serious issues such as any absences or problems. I'm in NI and I'm always a bit bemused by some of the school threads which are based in the English system.

We dont have TA's but the kids aren't allowed into the school until 10 minutes before class begins.We did have a problem pre covid that pupils were being left at the side of the road to facilitate Parent's working hours and they started climbing the wall into the school.Some Teachers who like to come in early for whatever reason were then tormented with pupils wanting to use the toilet, falling ,being cold etc but for personal and insurance purposes, that had to be knocked on the head. There were many heated arguments with Parents who felt that they shouldn't have to pay childcare for a half hour before school until they were respectfully reminded that the staff has to do the same.We ahve PT meetings early in the year but always contact Parents if there is an issue or any regression throughout the year.

Am I understanding this correctly? You go to school at 9.10am and leave at 2.50pm? I know teachers do loads of work outside of school, but here in England every friend I've got who teaches primary is at work shortly after 8am and doesn't leave until at least 4pm.

Wow-I’m in at 7.30 and leave at 5.30/6 plus prep in the evenings. If you have meetings with parents during school hours, who is in your classroom?

Whats your marking load like? Expectations for planning/learning objectives? Assessment expectations? Lesson observations? Book scrutinies, PMRs, Ofsted? Deep dives? Subject leadership?

A lot of the stuff we have to do is a pointless, time consuming wast of time so it sounds like you have it better!

@EmmaGrundyForPM ,
Likewise. Family member was a primary teacher, she'd be in school by 7:30 and leave around 5.

Similar timetable for me. I teach an infant class. My class go home at 1.30. I leave around 3 when my own kids come out.

Yes you read correctly.These are my hours of work.I do all correcting etc at home and do CPD in my own tme as I wish.I don't recognise many of the expectations that you have typed eg deep dives etc.We just go in, do our work, go home, do our correcting etc.That's it really. I remeber once,a Parent barged into the school and was standing in one of the Teacher's classrooms and started hurling abuse at the Teacher when he walked into his classroom.There was serious trouble after that episode because of the Parent entering the school.The Parent's issue was secondary.It seems a million miles away from what I read on here about the English system.

My kids are at school in Ireland - mine have slightly different hours, but yes, teachers don't arrive an awful lot before the kids (if I'm half-hour early, then the carpark will be virtually empty), and leave soon after the kids (pre-covid, if I hung around chatting to other mums, then we'd wave to each of them as they left).

Since covid we have an online system so we can message teachers/they can message us, but it's not abused, and if it was then it would be stamped on. As a rule I'd do as OP says and call/email the secretary who'd sort out a callback/appointment. It's all very efficient though - and I can catch the teacher at pickup if I really need to.

Even pre-covid, only infant parents went in the building at pickup/drop off.

It's very different - I do think much better, just more streamlined, less haphazard.

Mind you, every term I pay a significant contribution, I buy all books and stationary, and the kids eat lunch in the playground or at their desk (and this only after complaining that they were having to eat standing up in the cold), so there are some downsides/things I might change if I had the choice

I teach in Dublin and and am in for an 8.40 start and I finish at 2.20 pm. Don't have much corrections and do my planning in school.

However , we have lots of contact with parents by email, ClassDojo, Google Classroom etc. But yes, an amazing job. My salary is about 86 k ( euro ). Lesser promoted post and teaching 30 years.

Ireland has, for years tried to emulate the English system regarding all the unnecessary paperwork.They have realised that it doesn't work for us with much resistance.We are paid very well here but there is a two tiered system here re pay for the NQT's so Teachers are leaving in their droves.Our Minister has tonight, suggested a ban on career leave due to a shortage. I adore my job.It gives me great joy but I also see that it is a job, not a vocation as was historically suggested, to ensure Teachers spent hours and hours of unpaid time working out of hours. We are currently trying to emulate the Scottish maths curriculum, which again is being resisted.We have a very high rating in the OECD re our Ed system so why change what works.... Our Principal is very determined that we retain our status as Profesionals and not become some type of martyr system as we were traditionally viewed.

Quink - primary school books free from next year !

not a teacher but experience or both systems. British teachers work longer hours, earn less (on average) and do not command the same respect that among the British public than the Irish teachers do. In Ireland a lot of mums become teachers to work around school. Teachers I am familiar with on the UK (primary) are in school at 7.30. Leave at 6pm. Work their balls off. Not saying the Irish teachers don’t but there’s a better work life balance in Ireland for teachers.
I’d consider being a primary teacher in Ireland. I wouldn’t dream of it in the UK.

Sorry for typos. Walking and typing!

FoodieToo, I'm also an AP2 and teaching 20 years.Possibly on e67K so feel so fortunate when I read about expectations and salaries in England.Having said that ,I recently rejected an informal offer of DP for an extra few grand as the admin is just off the charts atm.I like to walk out the door at 250 and get home to my children.

The UK teachers seem to work double our hours . I never work evenings, weekends of holidays . Might send the odd email or research something I am interested in using in school.
Happy teachers - happy school !!

I'll be interested to see how the 'free' book situation works out... Meagre budget per child no doubt .I'm glad to see it though.The school I work in has a very priviledged cohort and so, never had issues with the huge book lists, which I think is unnecessary at best.The school my children attend charge e50 per year for books so I'm fortunate.Our school book lists could ne e150 at least

This is really staggering! DH teaches primary here in England. At work for 8am latest - would be earlier but he has to do a nursery drop off for youngest at 7:30 first - and leaves around 5:39-6pm. Evenings are always spent doing some form of planning, safeguarding paperwork, marking, checking progress for about an hour. Weekends he works about 4 hours over the two days too. Absolutely no flexibility to the role at all and so can never help with school runs for oldest, never managed to attend a sports day or school play for oldest yet either due to those events falling in his teaching time. On school holidays in summer he will tend to go in a few days at least too.

Pay is pretty crap for the amount of work involved. Not the worst paid job at all, but it's not a great work life balance.

there is a two tiered system here re pay for the NQT's so Teachers are leaving in their droves.

What’s the 2-tier system? Are NQTs paid much less and are not staying?

Our Minister has tonight, suggested a ban on career leave due to a shortage.

Is career leave like a sabbatical?

I am not a teacher but have had a child at primary in the UK and in Ireland.

My observations align with OPs except that some teachers are involved in extra curricular after school activities (depending on school) and that teachers at some private schools might have longer contracted hours.

My experience in Ireland is largely positive and I think that the fact that teachers are well regarded and not overworked ultimately benefits the children. In the UK, it seems to be that endless bureaucracy and admin has obscured what school is all about - learning.

To echo PPs, in Ireland teaching is seen as a very well respected profession with family friendly hours and good holidays (2 months in summer for primary, 3 months in summer for secondary).

During the financial crash law was passed to allow new entrants to the profession to be paid on a much lower scale. That has not been rectified. Hence ‘two tier’ system of pay.

career leave is unpaid time away usually to care for family or travel.

Id be remiss in not pointing out difficulties in the system - next to impossible to get accommodation in the cities right now. Teachers leaving in droves as they can’t afford to rent. No ‘Dublin weighting’ or equivalent.

Bunnybabies I am also an AP2 . An AP1 was on offer recently but I didn't even apply .
Principals/ deputy are overworked/underpaid here in fairness.

Irish teachers also have 5 personal (EPV) days to take off a year for whatever reason they wish (wedding, christening etc!) (they must do courses over the summer etc to be entitled to these though) they also get 7 consecutive calendar days off if the choose to get married in term time. Not like U.K. at all

And 5 'illness in family' over 2 years for taking care of sick children. Time off to bring older relatives to hospital appointments etc.
Every day I am SO grateful for my job.

Also, my Irish friends gasp in amazement that 4 year olds in the UK are in school at 8.30/8.45 and finish at 3.15-3.30. And there is usually a before and after school wrap around care. Plus the fact that all English kids get a hot free school lunch daily until Year 2. And that we don’t pay a penny for school supplies at point of use. Or that most classes in the schools my DC have attended have a class teacher and a TA (not just for SEN).
All of that said, you wouldn’t convince me that education in English primary schools is any better than that in Irish ones.