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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Irish v English Primary Teachers/School... Wildly different experiences.

118 replies

bunnybabies · 06/12/2022 19:54

I am a Primary Teacher working in Ireland. I go to work at 910 and finish/leave at 250. If a parent wants to speak to me, they ring the secretary and make an appointment to do so, either by phone or in person.Always during school hours. If a parentt has a grievance, they first speak with me and then if not satisfied arrange another meeting with Principal Teacher and Class Teacher. I am a regular user of MN and am genuinely stunned at the access that parents have to Class Teacher and the school in England, generally.Parents at the school in which I work are not allowed into the building randomly.Again, a meeting is set up if needed. There is no such thing as emailing, social media contact or otherwise outside of working hours. From what I read on here, my experiences in the school I teach in, are wildly different.I am interested to know how things work at your children's school or indeed at your place of work, as a teaching staff member.Thanks.

OP posts:
Mamette · 07/12/2022 06:56

I’m surprised parents can’t contact you, we are in Dublin and can contact the teachers any time via the Aladdin app.

The other thing that always strikes me too is how short the U.K. school holidays are. In Ireland it’s the full 2 months of July and August.

June, July and August for secondary.

Shinyandnew1 · 07/12/2022 07:06

An art history textbook for high schoolers was $ 600- five years ago.

Thats crazy-600 for one book?! Was buying that compulsory?

I notice Irish teachers are referring to corrections rather than marking; that may just be semantics, but what does it involve?

cypresstree · 07/12/2022 07:35

@Bid876 you are quite right and @mathanxiety your description is spot on. Most jobs for most people are not 'vocations'; however in all reality you sound like a dreadful teacher OP and well below deserving the generous wage given to your ilk. There are really good teachers and really bad ones and the really good ones aren't fecking off home at 2.30pm. They are constantly evolving with the program and encouraging and managing their environment. You'd be described by kids in a certain way, no matter how efficient you think you are because over the years I've seen a good teacher bring some from the depths and a bad one knock it all back to nothing. I don't know why any teacher would have an issue with a parent approaching. Same as any job in the universe, yours is not a 'protected' situation.

Cuddlywuddlies · 07/12/2022 08:18

Another Irish parent here…my DC’s school is wonderful
gates open at 8:20…teacher on site and they stay in the yard until 8:35 and class starts at 8:40.
parents are not allowed in the gates but I have seen multiple teachers talk to parents through the fence.
Communication is through the Aladdin app. I sent a message the other evening at 8pm expecting a response the next day and I got one from the head 20mins later which was lovely, I also had a message from DD’s teacher a couple of days ago after she banged her lip.
school finished at 2:20 and we have an on-site after school facility that we pay for but is 100% worth it.
teachers are usually gone by 3:30 to be fair but that’s an hour after finish time so I don’t see the issue

Muinteoiragusmamai · 07/12/2022 09:48

Procrastination4 · 07/12/2022 02:20

Hmmm, my experience of teaching in Ireland is rather different to the OP's. I've 37 years under my belt at this stage. I arrive in to school at 7.45 or 7.50 each morning to prepare for the day ahead. I have a post of responsibility so am out in the yard to supervise the children from 8.30 until school starts at 8.50. School finishes at 2.30 but I rarely leave before 3.45 as I have planning/correcting/putting up displays/sorting class materials etc to do. Every Wednesday we have a whole school meeting for 1hour (part of a compulsory Croke Park hour agreement that all schools are supposed to do.) I invariably have an hour or so of planning and getting resources ready each night and I also put in a few hours at the weekend. I work efficiently and don't do things unless they are worthwhile, but there's no way that I could function effectively working the hours that the OP works. So, while I don't put in all the crazy hours that teachers in the UK seen to do, I do considerably more than the OP!

This is my experience too in Ireland.
Working 8.40 to about 4.30 or 5 at least. Always work during weekends too.
It's a small school so fewer people to share out extracurriculars, playground supervision etc and a mixed class (ie two classes in one room) so there's more prep. Somedays I hardly have time to go to the toilet. I frequently don't have time to eat lunch.
Since Covid, contact from parents is via email to individual teachers and this is constant I find.

@pandarific SEN provision is generally better in the larger schools I think. Maybe in Deis schools? Many smaller schools aren't resourced adequately in this regard. In theory, they should be, but the reality is different. Certainly our school is letting down children with SEN. We have applied for more support repeatedly - investing hours of time and effort in the process - but it's just not there. It's very difficult.

TheVeryThing · 07/12/2022 10:23

While I agree that there are not enough resources for children with additional needs, in my experience the schools do their best to allocate resources fairly. The teachers are mostly clued in and very supportive. I have been so impressed with the quality of primary teaching. Both my dcs have additional needs (one has dyspraxia and one has asd), both picked up on by their teachers. The level of support my kids need is not as high as others so that obviously affects my experience. I am aware of the lack of asd units, and consequently school places, in many areas.
From what I can see most primary teachers are in school pretty early and don't always leave immediately afterwards.
Although there are many improvements needed in our education system, I'm glad that teachers are not over-worked and are (mostly) respected.

Herroyal · 07/12/2022 10:44

My friend works recruiting teachers and SLT positions for schools in England - He's from NI and recruits from Northern Ireland and the Republic as they have plenty of teachers.
He says it's night and day in comparison, esp with NI and it's grammar school/secondary system. Even in the 'toughest' NI secondary the behaviour and results are better than most English 'good' comps.
He recruits promising golden hand shakes, more ££ and the kind of experience that looks good on CVs when going for senior roles.

My kids go to an excellent English state secondary, well regarded, decent results etc. but compared to my experience in a N Ireland grammar the behaviour is poor, the hours long, the teachers are overworked and the results decidedly average!

BessieFinkNottle · 07/12/2022 10:55

EarringsandLipstick · 07/12/2022 02:57

I would not go near an Irish primary mainstream school for SEN at present. The children with SEN are treated horrendously,No resources worth talking about.

That's a pretty outrageous statement. My DC primary school has opened classes for children with autism this year, and it's going really well. Previously children with autism were in the mainstream classes with SNA support and this also worked well for some children.

In the school there are a variety of children with additional needs, including Down Syndrome, and long term health conditions, like Muscular Dystrophy. The school are fantastic and so are the kids.

In my DC secondary school, there is also a unit for children with additional needs, which is integrated with the mainstream classes. I have less direct experience with this, but I'm on the PTA, and we spend a lot of time fundraising and supporting the unit.

On the other hand, my DC with additional needs has no suitable school place and hasn't been in school for years now as a result.
So I don't think the OP's statement was outrageous at all.
I think you can be lucky or unlucky depending on your child's needs and what's locally available. Overall, Ireland hàs a very long way to go to provide adequate SEN provision to everyone who needs it.

EarringsandLipstick · 07/12/2022 11:35

Sorry to hear that @BessieFinkNottle and you are right, there is certainly an issue, covered a lot in the media at the moment, about school provision for children with significant or profound additional needs. 💐

BessieFinkNottle · 07/12/2022 12:03

Thanks @EarringsandLipstick.

Pettv · 07/12/2022 13:39

This why I have little time for the Irish primary teachers moaning about their work loads the whole time! Sure look at the time you're finishing! And then weekends and holidays off!

MilkyYay · 07/12/2022 13:45

The school day seems very short in ireland. How does that work for parents with jobs? Is there extensive wraparound care?

I don't think parents have great access to school/teachers in uk. Children are dropped at the gate. You might have a brief word with the teacher at the gate at 3.15 but usually that's teacher initiated eg to mention that a child's fallen over/bumped head or whatever.

There's no direct email to the teachers. If you want to see them you contact the office to book in and its usually within school hours.

I know teachers on mnet often say they are at school 7.30am - 6pm but i see the teachers at our school arriving at about 8.15 (gate opens 8.35 for an 8.45 start) and the car park is mostly empty by 4pm. I don't doubt they are doing extra paperwork at home though.

Muinteoiragusmamai · 07/12/2022 14:21

This why I have little time for the Irish primary teachers moaning about their work loads the whole time! Sure look at the time you're finishing! And then weekends and holidays off!

Believe me, many do work longer hours than the OP. Term time is absolutely hectic. The holidays are good though.

The school day seems very short in ireland. How does that work for parents with jobs? Is there extensive wraparound care?
It depends on the school. Larger schools - often yes. Smaller schools - often no. My school has no wraparound care. Parents rely on childminders for the afterschool hours or juggle work/part-time work. Or you often see grandparents at the gate (though fewer since Covid I've noticed - there was a step change then).

Mamette · 07/12/2022 15:34

Pettv · 07/12/2022 13:39

This why I have little time for the Irish primary teachers moaning about their work loads the whole time! Sure look at the time you're finishing! And then weekends and holidays off!

Like a lot of things, perks and privileges get taken for granted when every one of your peers also gets them.

EarringsandLipstick · 07/12/2022 17:10

The school day seems very short in ireland. How does that work for parents with jobs? Is there extensive wraparound care?

Generally none. The school might provide the space for ASC but it's run entirely separately & is expensive. Childcare is very challenging in Ireland - the availability & cost. As it is I know in much of the UK, but the afterschool provision seems better there.

FoodieToo · 08/12/2022 00:36

We have excellent provision for SEN in our school in Ireland but we are a large, urban school.
I work my set hours , that does not mean I am not a good teacher . I do a good few extra hours in September when I am getting my plans organised but once that it done I don't need to spend much time at all outside the set hours.

Bid876 · 08/12/2022 01:09

Goneback2school · 07/12/2022 00:40

That surely depends on the school though. I've experience of two Irish primary schools who are both very different to what you describe. In the town school the principal stood at the gate every morning, greeting each child by name, was very approachable for parents. Text messages/ phone calls from the secretary happened for any injury/ illness with a paper copy of the form if a bump on the head happened. In their current village school, 2 staff members greet the kids in the morning and their teachers bring them to the gate after school where they often have a quick word with parents. Again messages are sent for any bumps/ bruises. All staff have been very approachable.

As I stated, this was not exclusive to my DDs school, though my DDs school was definitely the worse.

One parent has informed me their children are doing amazing since leaving the school. And I’ve heard through the grapevine mixed response from the others.

The school my DDs went to were supposed to be leading the way in mental health and special needs, but as one grandparent described it was like seeing their grandchildren in jail, they were locked away from the others. Teachers even openly spoke to staff and friends who said that teachers were put in the “unit” as punishment when they rocked the boat.

I also couldn’t believe a school of 500 pupils ( can’t remember exact number) would only have a part time receptionist and no telephone service. I had no idea who I needed to contact if my child was ill. In the end I didn’t bother telling them.

And people wonder how children in Ireland fall through the gaps…

Id be interested to see if op works for an ET school.

As for mental health, this is definitely nation wide but not also a school system issue but a general medical issue.

batchainpuller · 09/12/2022 09:53

Bid876 · 08/12/2022 01:09

As I stated, this was not exclusive to my DDs school, though my DDs school was definitely the worse.

One parent has informed me their children are doing amazing since leaving the school. And I’ve heard through the grapevine mixed response from the others.

The school my DDs went to were supposed to be leading the way in mental health and special needs, but as one grandparent described it was like seeing their grandchildren in jail, they were locked away from the others. Teachers even openly spoke to staff and friends who said that teachers were put in the “unit” as punishment when they rocked the boat.

I also couldn’t believe a school of 500 pupils ( can’t remember exact number) would only have a part time receptionist and no telephone service. I had no idea who I needed to contact if my child was ill. In the end I didn’t bother telling them.

And people wonder how children in Ireland fall through the gaps…

Id be interested to see if op works for an ET school.

As for mental health, this is definitely nation wide but not also a school system issue but a general medical issue.

My dc go to an ET school. The eldest is autistic and provision has been abysmal at times. Thankfully better this year. There are so many awful stories of children with additional needs getting no help or not even getting places though.

SparkyBlue · 09/12/2022 15:57

@MilkyYay no there is no after school available in most schools. Just anecdotally from being on here on MN it just seems such a different attitude. School is school and childcare is totally different. Around here people use a crèche that will collect or a childminder . We also have much shorter days and way longer holidays so the expectation is that you need separate childcare. Whereas here on MN I often see posts where people are asking what to do in the summer holidays or whatever whereas anyone local to me who works outside the home and has primary school children would already have regular childcare .
My DS has asd and attends an asd class in a mainstream school and the school is absolutely brilliant. I've zero complaints. Max six children in a class

Whee · 09/12/2022 16:39

MilkyYay · 07/12/2022 13:45

The school day seems very short in ireland. How does that work for parents with jobs? Is there extensive wraparound care?

I don't think parents have great access to school/teachers in uk. Children are dropped at the gate. You might have a brief word with the teacher at the gate at 3.15 but usually that's teacher initiated eg to mention that a child's fallen over/bumped head or whatever.

There's no direct email to the teachers. If you want to see them you contact the office to book in and its usually within school hours.

I know teachers on mnet often say they are at school 7.30am - 6pm but i see the teachers at our school arriving at about 8.15 (gate opens 8.35 for an 8.45 start) and the car park is mostly empty by 4pm. I don't doubt they are doing extra paperwork at home though.

I find posts like this frustrating. Schools in the UK are not all the same - for one thing education is devolved in Scotland and bears little resemblance to the English system. And even within the constituent countries, not all schools are the same. I've never worked in a primary where parents don't have my direct email. Equally I've always been expected to be out on the playground 10 mins before school starts and at the end of the day yo have informal chats with parents. The way your school does things does not mean that's how all schools in the UK operate.

jamoncrumpets · 09/12/2022 17:03

You couldn't pay me to send my kids to school in Ireland. They treat kids with SEN like we're back in the 80s.

Cuddlywuddlies · 09/12/2022 17:46

@jamoncrumpets do you mind me asking where you get this knowledge from? My DC’s school has a whole purpose built centre for SEN children, they integrate with the mainstream for lots of things that suit and it has a wonderful sensory room and the staff are extremely well trained etc. i also have a relation who’s child goes to a SEN school that is the only one of its kind in Ireland and being modelled on in Europe now as it’s so successful. I don’t think it’s a fair statement at all

jamoncrumpets · 09/12/2022 17:59

Cuddlywuddlies · 09/12/2022 17:46

@jamoncrumpets do you mind me asking where you get this knowledge from? My DC’s school has a whole purpose built centre for SEN children, they integrate with the mainstream for lots of things that suit and it has a wonderful sensory room and the staff are extremely well trained etc. i also have a relation who’s child goes to a SEN school that is the only one of its kind in Ireland and being modelled on in Europe now as it’s so successful. I don’t think it’s a fair statement at all

From the OP 🤷🏻‍♀️

Cuddlywuddlies · 09/12/2022 18:33

@jamoncrumpets oh well yes then if the OP says it, it must be true 🙄

batchainpuller · 09/12/2022 19:44

jamoncrumpets · 09/12/2022 17:03

You couldn't pay me to send my kids to school in Ireland. They treat kids with SEN like we're back in the 80s.

That’s not true. Certainly not our experience. We’ve had one bad teacher (unfortunately for two years of primary), the rest have been absolutely brilliant and inclusive.

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