Page 8 | Christmas train strikes

Darthwazette · 2022-12-05T19:58:19+00:00

AIBU to wish the train strike situation could just be sorted out? Theyve just announced strikes right over Christmas. My family were coming to stay with me and now they can’t. I’ve had to cancel so many visits and trips since these strikes began. I wish they’d just reach an agreement already.

lookersnoopy · 05/12/2022 21:58

@SueVineer

Train drivers are already overpaid for what they do sue to militant unions. I don’t take the train anymore as it’s just too unreliable. They will eventually do themselves out of a job.

This dispute has been going on for long enough now that when joining a discussion it is expected that people know the basics of it, but you have just tossed in your 2p worth without so much as a quick skim of the news/thread.

Train drivers?

Middlered · 05/12/2022 22:08

The strikes are really affecting us. DH travels to London for hospital treatment. He can travel by himself by train if I get him on and off the train (station has been unmanned for years - ticket office open some mornings for 2 hours, but discourage you from using them so book online or buy ticket from a machine). But with the train strikes I have to drive him which takes 4 hours instead of 1.5 hours, and we both lose a days pay instead of one of us. Plus we have to pay someone to have DC before and after wrap around school club as our day away is so long. The total cost to access essential care is massive.

It seems to me that the people affected by the strikes have absolutely no control over what deal the unions can broker. Therefore I don’t think striking serves any point and all it does is spread misery and ensures that people with a choice increasingly avoid using the service.

mogsrus · 05/12/2022 22:10

Bet the usual ticket increase next year is going to be huge, but with so much wfh going on they just might be signing a death warrant

DdraigGoch · 05/12/2022 22:12

Mojoj · 05/12/2022 20:45

I fear they are striking their way to oblivion. Automation is just around the corner.

Not going to happen on 95% of the network. Not in my lifetime (and I've got at least half a century to go). Too expensive to implement.

Chesneyhawkes1 · 05/12/2022 22:14

@mogsrus the government set the ticket prices. Not the train companies and certainly not the unions.

The recurring theme through all this misery, is the government.

ethelredonagoodday · 05/12/2022 22:15

lookersnoopy · 05/12/2022 20:26

Strikers still get some money from the union fund don't they?

Do you think the union is making up everyone's wages? Come on now

I have been on strike in the past (several years ago now) and i certainly didn't get anything from the union, and also had to make pension contributions to top up the 'breaks' in earning...

MarshaBradyo · 05/12/2022 22:15

Chesneyhawkes1 · 05/12/2022 22:14

@mogsrus the government set the ticket prices. Not the train companies and certainly not the unions.

The recurring theme through all this misery, is the government.

How do you lift wages and deal with reduced demand without increased fares?

username11122 · 05/12/2022 22:19

I'm not sure that's the railworkers have much public support not like the nurses have

Chesneyhawkes1 · 05/12/2022 22:20

@MarshaBradyo many ways. Pay less millions out to the people at the top for a start?

Ticket prices have gone up in the last 3 years. No one's wages on the railway have.

They'll put them up no matter what.

MarshaBradyo · 05/12/2022 22:22

Chesneyhawkes1 · 05/12/2022 22:20

@MarshaBradyo many ways. Pay less millions out to the people at the top for a start?

Ticket prices have gone up in the last 3 years. No one's wages on the railway have.

They'll put them up no matter what.

Is it just paying people at the top less? Is it enough to solve all the issues. When you say many ways what other ways are you thinking of

The pandemic there were many demanding people wfh. In the end it changed work patterns and now lower demand.

DdraigGoch · 05/12/2022 22:25

Zanatdy · 05/12/2022 21:01

no we can’t as 75% of our staff rely on the train to get to work, like many people who have things planned that week which can’t happen. In the real world people are allowed to be upset they can’t reward their staff and enjoy a bit of festive cheer as strikes have been put in at times to cause massive disruption and huge detriment to the economy. London Theatre are losing tens of thousands per night with the strikes. It’s hard for local businesses who have been hit hard and now extra Christmas business won’t be happening.

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Well perhaps the government should stop deliberately obstructing a deal then. No one enjoys going on strike and losing a day's pay in the process. Even the management are on the same side as the workers, some of the directors used to call Grant Shapps names behind his back that would have made Arthur Scargill blush.

mimillion · 05/12/2022 22:29

@Hexcode

" But that's their choice! I fully understand the reasons but when things are this tight it's hard to feel sympathy "

You don't really have a choice when you are in a union like this one, the consequences of breaking the strike are far worse than missing a days pay.

Chesneyhawkes1 · 05/12/2022 22:29

@MarshaBradyo I think there are other ways the railways could save money.

As with most industries I feel there are ways money is wasted. I wouldn't get into detail on a forum.

There are always ways huge businesses can make savings. But they never start with the top do they. It's always taking away from the workers at the bottom first.

The demand is less, Monday and Friday are certainly quieter on the trains.

Some days the trains are packed though. Like they used to be. And weekends still very busy.

Ultimately I feel the TOC's are willing to negotiate with the unions but they aren't being allowed to do so. Certainly that was the impression given during our recent pay talks.

WatchoRulo · 05/12/2022 22:30

Tipsyturvychocolatemonster · 05/12/2022 20:43

The strikes are clearly planned to cause as much traveller disruption and pain as possible, they are now targetting peoples christmases. I support striking, I get the need to cause the public pain to get what you want, I don’t support doing it at times like Christmas when people want to be with their families, not after covid where so many people couldn’t be. I don’t support it at all. It’s negotiation with a gun to the head.

And people shouting I support it. Aye. Until you need to pay for the increased ticket price to pay for it, or see a reduction in services or maintenance and improvement.

im pig sick of it. Everyone supports it, this strike or that, until they actually need to put their hands in their pockets to pay for it. When their commute costs more, or their taxes are increased, then it’s a different story.

The private companies are coining it in, shareholders and execs have their snouts firmly in the trough.

youhavenoshameonyourface · 05/12/2022 22:31

mimillion · 05/12/2022 22:29

@Hexcode

" But that's their choice! I fully understand the reasons but when things are this tight it's hard to feel sympathy "

You don't really have a choice when you are in a union like this one, the consequences of breaking the strike are far worse than missing a days pay.

What are the consequences?

DdraigGoch · 05/12/2022 22:31

snoodles · 05/12/2022 21:03

They will get another job? There are plenty of jobs out there.

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That's exactly what many have done. One TPE depot has lost a total of 60 drivers (so a significant proportion of the complement). They've gone to work for freight companies or have simply retired before the government raids the pension fund. That's why TPE run such a shocking service these days, they don't pay a market rate for their staff so are perpetually short. Training new staff costs money and takes time - a driver can hand their notice in and be gone in three months, it takes fifteen to replace them.

mimillion · 05/12/2022 22:32

Tipsyturvychocolatemonster · 05/12/2022 20:43

The strikes are clearly planned to cause as much traveller disruption and pain as possible, they are now targetting peoples christmases. I support striking, I get the need to cause the public pain to get what you want, I don’t support doing it at times like Christmas when people want to be with their families, not after covid where so many people couldn’t be. I don’t support it at all. It’s negotiation with a gun to the head.

And people shouting I support it. Aye. Until you need to pay for the increased ticket price to pay for it, or see a reduction in services or maintenance and improvement.

im pig sick of it. Everyone supports it, this strike or that, until they actually need to put their hands in their pockets to pay for it. When their commute costs more, or their taxes are increased, then it’s a different story.

Well said

WatchoRulo · 05/12/2022 22:38

snoodles · 05/12/2022 20:21

Yes 5% this year apparently and 4% next year. I don't think I'll get any rise anytime soon. I don't know anyone getting a rise at all.

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What do you think is especially virtuous about meekly accepting shit rises when CEOs are getting 23%?

MarshaBradyo · 05/12/2022 22:38

Chesneyhawkes1 · 05/12/2022 22:29

@MarshaBradyo I think there are other ways the railways could save money.

As with most industries I feel there are ways money is wasted. I wouldn't get into detail on a forum.

There are always ways huge businesses can make savings. But they never start with the top do they. It's always taking away from the workers at the bottom first.

The demand is less, Monday and Friday are certainly quieter on the trains.

Some days the trains are packed though. Like they used to be. And weekends still very busy.

Ultimately I feel the TOC's are willing to negotiate with the unions but they aren't being allowed to do so. Certainly that was the impression given during our recent pay talks.

Fair enough re wastage that may be the case

The main issue is drop in demand quick google published in October 2022

A total of 332 million rail passenger journeys were made in Great Britain in the latest quarter (1 April to 30 June 2022). This equates to 75.8% of the 437 million journeys in the same quarter three years ago (pre-pandemic).

Total passenger revenue was £2.1 billion in the latest quarter. This equates to 70.4% of the £3.0 billion three years ago (when using 1 April to 30 June 2022 prices).

dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/usage/passenger-rail-usage/

That forced change to working patterns is a major cause

mimillion · 05/12/2022 22:41

@youhavenoshameonyourface

Those who break a strike known by everyone else as a scab are often treated horrendously by those who have taken strike action, name calling, bullying, shunning, getting the worst shifts etc etc. I have worked for a similarly powerful union and remember being so relieved that I was on leave on the few occasions the members went on strike. At that point I just couldn't afford to lose a days pay or more.

Figmentofmyimagination · 05/12/2022 22:46

There is a high level of public support for rail renationalisation, which I agree with the RMT is a very good idea.
fullfact.org/economy/do-public-want-railways-renationalised/

Alexandra2001 · 05/12/2022 22:47

username11122 · 05/12/2022 22:19

I'm not sure that's the railworkers have much public support not like the nurses have

Oh don't worry....that'll soon change, the nurses have already been accused of backing Putins aims by the government.. the tory media will soon turn on them too.

If the CEO of Crosscountry can get xx% amount, so can the workers.

the Govt could settle this, the TOC want too but the govt wont let them, it suits the GOvt to have a whipping boy to blame, be it migrants, the EU, unions.....

Chesneyhawkes1 · 05/12/2022 22:53

@mimillion when I started my job almost 19 years ago, there was someone there who worked during the 1981 strikes. They still weren't talking to him.

There is absolutely no way I would cross a picket line.

Livinginanotherworld · 05/12/2022 22:59

Zanatdy · 05/12/2022 20:30

I’m so upset about the strikes, we have had to cancel our office lunch. Just a nice opportunity to get together pre Christmas but they are pretty much striking all week which is so frustrating. Christmas Eve is very unfair for those who have travel plans. Apparently they said they wouldn’t do Christmas so families wouldn’t be stopped from seeing each other. Well they back tracked on that

Awww what a shame about your lunch 🙄. Don’t worry about unmanned platforms and ticket offices and 1000’s of job losses, let the fat cats in charge get another whopping bonus. Blame the bloody government not the workers who are having to make sacrifices too for the future of services in this country.

lookersnoopy · 05/12/2022 23:03

Chesneyhawkes1 · 05/12/2022 22:53

@mimillion when I started my job almost 19 years ago, there was someone there who worked during the 1981 strikes. They still weren't talking to him.

There is absolutely no way I would cross a picket line.

I'm laughing somewhat that people think it is at all possible to go to work on a train when trains are not running due to staff across the board striking. Do you think it takes just one person to operate a service?

Nobody is crossing s picket line and going to work, there is no work