Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Christmas train strikes

449 replies

Darthwazette · 05/12/2022 19:58

AIBU to wish the train strike situation could just be sorted out?

Theyve just announced strikes right over Christmas. My family were coming to stay with me and now they can’t. I’ve had to cancel so many visits and trips since these strikes began. I wish they’d just reach an agreement already.

OP posts:
Alexandra2001 · 06/12/2022 08:03

DdraigGoch · 06/12/2022 06:56

I would start by electrifying. Electric trains with brushless AC motors require far less maintenance and far less energy cost than diesel. They also cause no pollution at the point of use, which would improve air quality in our cities (anyone been to Birmingham New Street) and help towards net zero targets. By massively improving acceleration they cause a "sparks effect" which really drives up demand.

It requires capital investment of course but the long term gains are significant.

I know you re into your trains... so how does hydrogen figure into all this?
Germany seems to be using it as a fuel and if hydrogen production can be done with renewable energy, i'd have thought its a winner?

Listened to a R4 article on a northern railway that still uses mechanical signalling..... but its the RMT that has to modernise!!!!

Brefugee · 06/12/2022 08:06

I am going to assume that a lot of the people moaning about the strike, say because they and their colleagues miss out on christmas lunch (i get that's disappointing but let's keep proportions here) are working in lovely jobs with weekends, paid holiday, sick pay, maternity rights, health and safety regulations?

Give them back then. Go on. Go completely back to pre-hard-won rights that unions fought for, long hard fights for the working class to have a modicum more than being treated like utter shit.

Start here
www.eastlondonhistory.co.uk/bryant-may-strike-bow-east-london/

I feel for everyone who is affected by the strike.
I laugh mirthlessly at those who "support the strike but can it be less inconvinient for me?"

MiniCooperLover · 06/12/2022 08:08

These strikes aren't just about pay, it's about forcing them to accept new working conditions and let's be honest, having to accept new working conditions that need to be forced in doesn't fill me with confidence that they'll be good working conditions in the working man's favour! So yes I support the strikes even though I had to cancel my work trip, so bloody what. I can drink cheap wine another night.

WarmWinterSun · 06/12/2022 08:12

I don’t support the strikes. They are already well paid and have been offered pay rises. Their jobs are highly sought after. I do support the nurses’ strikes and I also support strikes for teachers. Their pay is appalling.

lookersnoopy · 06/12/2022 08:26

WarmWinterSun · 06/12/2022 08:12

I don’t support the strikes. They are already well paid and have been offered pay rises. Their jobs are highly sought after. I do support the nurses’ strikes and I also support strikes for teachers. Their pay is appalling.

You don't supper the strikes because your level of understanding of the situation is around Daily Mail. Even if RTFT you would have better knowledge about the strikes, the people involved, and the risk to jobs.

DdraigGoch · 06/12/2022 08:27

Theluggage15 · 06/12/2022 07:30

Every household subsidises the railways by £500 even though of course the vast majority don’t use them. Every job advertised is massively oversubscribed, there’s no problem with getting staff. They are extremely well paid for what they do. None of them lost money during the pandemic, on 100% of salary unlike many of the poor sods who pay for them.

They are a bunch of dinosaurs living in the seventies. They’ve lost loads of customers since the pandemic but expect to be paid vastly more. Just unbelievable that they think they should be indulged at the expense of others.

I haven't been to hospital in years, am I due a rebate?

Taxes are paid to fund public services for the benefit of all. I am never ill, but I still indirectly benefit from hospitals because when other people get better they become more productive. Likewise someone who never uses public transport still benefits from not being sat in traffic jams and not breathing in the fumes that would be pumped out if those who do use it instead went by car.

There's certainly a problem with getting staff - why do you think that Avanti and TPE are up the wall at the moment, if they aren't short of staff? It takes up to 15 months to train someone which means that it's important to retain the ones you already have.

By the way, if demand has dropped then why do the trains near me (operating at their pre-pandemic level of service) routinely run full and standing, often leaving crowds behind?

DdraigGoch · 06/12/2022 08:37

Indoorvoicesbluey · 06/12/2022 07:42

Actually that’s bulltshit.

my husband said that if they don’t stoke and go against the grain the rest of his team would never speak to him again. His work life would be made horrific.

Voting is done in secret (by law). No one would know how you voted.

Obviously if you vote one way but everyone else votes the other, then you have to accept it - that's democracy. Remember that the threshold required for strike action is far higher than almost anything else, you need an absolute majority of all the members involved, not just of those who actually voted.

WarmWinterSun · 06/12/2022 08:39

@lookersnoopy

That’s pretty rude. I don’t read the Daily Mail.

I am aware that the Union is relying on other factors but pay is a big part of this. I don’t agree with their opposition to job losses because the current proposals don’t involve sacking anyone but phasing out jobs, not replacing staff, etc. I also think they should be required work longer hours, particularly given their pay levels.

WarmWinterSun · 06/12/2022 08:40

BTW, I absolutely would support renationalising the railways.

lookersnoopy · 06/12/2022 08:41

That’s pretty rude. I don’t read the Daily Mail.

Rude? Your posts was staggeringly ignorant. I just pointed it out. The DM thing was a bit of a comparison, not a accusation that you are a reader.

NotTerfNorCis · 06/12/2022 08:43

I support striking in principle. I support renationalising the railways, and any other critical industry.

I can also see how these strikes are selfishly and indiscriminately impacting tens of thousands of people. It's alright if you don't need the trains, but if you do... you're not likely to have much sympathy in the long term.

jimmyjammy001 · 06/12/2022 08:44

If it was a straight up pay rise of 4% which is still well below 11% inflation then I think they would of taken it, but its not, they are basically asking them to do multiple jobs and guards off the trains so basically signing their own death warrant for getting the sack in just over a years time when the guarantee of compulsory redundancys end, they literally have nothing to loose now due to the governments insulting offer and its hardly surprising more strike dates have been announced in retaliation, the only party the blame here is the government, nobody else, loads of other sectors are going on strike for the same reasons

Chesneyhawkes1 · 06/12/2022 08:50

@lookersnoopy there will be trains running if and when my Union strikes. Not many but management will be asked to operate some kind of service.

On the recent RMT strike days my TOC ran a limited service. The signallers also have managers that will cover to a certain extent, between reduced hours.

jimmyjammy001 · 06/12/2022 08:52

Zanatdy · 05/12/2022 20:30

I’m so upset about the strikes, we have had to cancel our office lunch. Just a nice opportunity to get together pre Christmas but they are pretty much striking all week which is so frustrating. Christmas Eve is very unfair for those who have travel plans. Apparently they said they wouldn’t do Christmas so families wouldn’t be stopped from seeing each other. Well they back tracked on that

They called off the strikes first time round because the government guarneteed an offer at the end of talks, the government back trakced on that, they have then come back with thousands of Job loses for a measy "4%" pay rise this year, hardly surprising thats angered the union and workers and have now upped the anti, they are going to loose there jobs in a years time when the redundancy guanrtee runs out, they have nothing to loose now, it's selfish to expect workers to accept the sack and worse conditions for the ones that are left because certain people won't make one Xmas meal with friends or family, this is people's livelihoods

WarmWinterSun · 06/12/2022 08:54

I don’t think it is staggeringly ignorant to refer to pay when that is one of the major issues in the strike. It also doesn’t mean that my level of understanding is based on the Daily Mail. That’s a bit of an assumption.

We have different opinions on this, which is partly the point of mumsnet. Name calling doesn’t help, it just comes across as bullying on the thread.

mamabear715 · 06/12/2022 08:54

Strikes piss me off. I lived through the 70's 'Everybody OUT' & thought we'd done with them.
Yes, I know they have their (good) reasons, but it's always the public who suffer..

lookersnoopy · 06/12/2022 08:55

WarmWinterSun · 06/12/2022 08:54

I don’t think it is staggeringly ignorant to refer to pay when that is one of the major issues in the strike. It also doesn’t mean that my level of understanding is based on the Daily Mail. That’s a bit of an assumption.

We have different opinions on this, which is partly the point of mumsnet. Name calling doesn’t help, it just comes across as bullying on the thread.

Refer to pay? Fine.

Your comment? Showed you have no idea what you are talking about.

If you want to join the discussion, get the basics?

lookersnoopy · 06/12/2022 08:59

Oh and I did not call you names or fucking bully you Hmm

I likened your knowledge to that of the Daily Mail.

I pointed out your ignorance - lack of knowledge!

Neither of those things are name calling.

Neither of them make me a bully.

Calling someone a bully for pointing out your lack of knowledge is a really awful thing to do. I never bullied anyone in my life.

lookersnoopy · 06/12/2022 09:00

I'm out now because what was a really interesting thread has turned sour for me.

WarmWinterSun · 06/12/2022 09:00

@lookersnoopy

You haven’t any idea of the depth of my knowledge on this or any other issue. You do have a sense of my opinion which you don’t like. I don’t expect any engagement on the issues with you would be constructive as your posts directed at me are pretty aggressive and descended into name calling pretty rapidly. But then I have low expectations for online forums as all the paper tigers come out! I do like a good debate in real life however. 😊

CMZ2018 · 06/12/2022 09:01

Leave them to it, same as the posties. They’ll soon be back at work when they can’t pay their bills.

Booksandwine80 · 06/12/2022 09:10

Staff don’t want to strike but if they don’t they get called “scabs” and “scum” if they choose to cross the picket line 🙄

username11122 · 06/12/2022 09:23

Booksandwine80 · 06/12/2022 09:10

Staff don’t want to strike but if they don’t they get called “scabs” and “scum” if they choose to cross the picket line 🙄

Sounds like lovely people that work in these jobs

username11122 · 06/12/2022 09:25

Actually though reading some threads on MN like this some posters would find it very easy to call people scabs and scum if they didn't agree with them

DdraigGoch · 06/12/2022 09:31

Alexandra2001 · 06/12/2022 08:03

I know you re into your trains... so how does hydrogen figure into all this?
Germany seems to be using it as a fuel and if hydrogen production can be done with renewable energy, i'd have thought its a winner?

Listened to a R4 article on a northern railway that still uses mechanical signalling..... but its the RMT that has to modernise!!!!

A late friend of mine was an engineer at the DfT working on alternative power. Hydrogen might be a solution for rural routes with few trains (such as the West Highland Line, the Far North Line, the Heart of Wales Line etc.). It's not a viable option for lines with at least one train per hour, it's so energy inefficient to use electricity to perform electrolysis and then convert that hydrogen back into electrical energy around - you lose 60-70%. Much more efficient to just send the electricity down a wire. That assumes of course that you're using green electricity to produce the hydrogen, 90% of hydrogen currently comes from burning fossil fuels. It'll have a place on remote routes, using surplus power when the wind is blowing strong but it's not a mainstream solution. Even in Germany it's only seen as a stopgap pending electrification. Look at the Swiss, they've electrified everything.

Mechanical signalling is still really common. In 2018 there were still four such boxes in London. The thing is that mechanical signalling rarely goes wrong. There are plenty of spare parts available and the skills required to maintain them comparatively straightforward.

Electrical insulation on the other hand degrades, such that plenty of kit from the 1970s now has "do not touch" signs all over it because any disturbance could blackout a wide area. A lot of 1990s kit (so when computerisation started to happen) is now obsolete and difficult to obtain spares. Despite the inefficiency of having one signaller every few miles, the capital expenditure required to resignal the line won't be recouped even with 100 years. As long as you don't want to make any changes, such as electrifying or altering track layouts then it's cheaper to leave things as they are.

It has got to the stage where Network Rail recently re-locked a mechanical signal box in Worcester, rather than replace with modern kit, that's how the economics stack up. Plymouth panel was installed in 1960, but because it will be a long long time before electric wires reach that far west it will long outlive its far younger brethren (Slough IECC lasted from the early 1990s to 2011).

It's interesting that you mention mechanical signalling, because despite what the government would have everyone believe, RMT and formerly NUR members have had decades of redundancies as the network has modernised in patches. With little protest against real progress. In fact Bob Crow once actually called for the closure of all level crossings.

Why does the railway cost so much?
Well after the various disasters of the late 1990s/early 2000s the railway has been transformed into the safest railway in Europe. That progress didn't come cheap.

Swipe left for the next trending thread