To think WFH has gone too far now?

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I am very lucky to have a fully flexible role in a very understanding organisation. My colleagues come from a range of backgrounds and have various reasons for appreciating the level of flexibility we have - not all are parents.

We are now almost entirely home based, which in principle is fine but in practise becoming frustrating. Our work is desk based and requires quite a lot of collaboration.

My issue is that people are becoming so much harder to talk to in the day because it’s as if work fits in around their home life when it suits. Almost everything has to be booked in as a meeting, rarely is anyone available for a spontaneous call / chat on teams as you would have done in the office. We are supposed to be available core hours 10-4 for a 35 hr week, and either side of that as you see best.

Recent examples when I’ve sent a message to ask if people have five mins for a chat - sorry I’m making bread / feeding the horses / talking to the plumber etc etc. I’ve also noticed people are booking in more and more non-work appts in the working day yet still expect to clock off by 4.30. They are things which could easily be done before / after work day. We have a colleague (who does some important work for me) coming back from mat leave in summer who is planning to have her baby at home with her on at least a couple of her work days because flexibility.

AIBU to think that people are becoming less and less available and that it’s affecting our work and working relationships? I’m quite a collaborative person and I like exchanging ideas with colleagues (but I don’t overdepend on them before anyone starts!).

Starting to wonder if this is the right place for me but before I decide what to do I wanted to see what other peoples experiences are. This is not a large corporate company, it’s a small design firm where we work to super tight deadlines but we do lots of client facing work too eg pitches.

Initially I thought YABU because whilst it might be convenient for YOU to drop by for a 5 minute chat, it might not have always be convenient for the other person. The beauty of scheduled meetings is that people can plan their work around them, if people are constantly 'dropping in' then it's easy to get behind.

HOWEVER if their excuse is that they're speaking to the plumber or feeding the horses (and not 'sorry I'm just in the middle of a presentation/report, but I can be free in half an hour?') then that is clearly unacceptable.

I'm currently on mat leave but highly doubt this would be an issue in my workplace, as people like this would be found out pretty quickly.

I found WFH really affected my mental health, as I did it for well over a year FT before I was allowed to go back to the office. But when I did go back, hardly anyone else did. It was so frustrating that I changed jobs earlier this year. In my new job we can WFH up to 2 days a week. I actually find it just as frustrating, as we don't use Teams, so have to be in the office for most meetings, and trying to align everyone's schedules is a PITA. And more people have gone back to the office in my old job since I left, so I feel I should maybe have stuck it out a bit longer).

Lots of people take the piss and that is why many companies started making people go back into the office at least a few days a week . The company my husband works for has made WFH permanent and it’s been excellent for us as he works multinationally and can still be online at 9pm but now can still be present for dinner and can keep his hours reasonable by cutting the grass / washing the car etc in the periods when he’s not busy . If he had been office based he would have just been in the office from 9:30 - whenever . He knows of people in other roles who literally do no work at all but as he says it’s not his business unless it affects him .

Having my dh wfh drives me round the bend as the only work space is the living room, but give him his credit, he works his full hours, no slacking. This however means that I still have to do all the house work, he never takes five minutes to put a wash on, anything like that... But what I don't understand is hybrid working. He goes into the office two days a week, wfh for three. What advantage is there in that? Surely you either go out to work the whole time or you work at home the whole time? I could understand it when we were coming out of lockdowns and workplaces wanted only half the staff in at any one time, same for public transport, but we seem to be pretty much back to normal now, so what is hybrid for???

STTE but I'd say YABU that WFH has gone too far, but your management/HR are also BU by not consistently reasserting what is and isn't acceptable within your WFH implementation. It's still quite a new situation for most companies so it won't be perfect, but they should be regularly seeking feedback on what is and isn't working, and then issuing updated guidance etc based on that. Have you raised your concerns with whoever is managing your company's WFH policy?

The plumber one seems like an odd complaint though, surely most people would've requested a WFH day pre-covid if they'd needed a plumber in..? It's not generally something you can arrange for weekends/evenings.

the people taking the piss will ruin it for everyone.

Two different issues in my view.

If you aren't directly customer-facing WFH is fine. If colleagues want to chat it's not at all unreasonable to send you a quick note to see if you are free. As a pp said, even if you are in the office you can be in a meeting, already talking to someone else informally, getting a drink/lunch (or on the loo!) so expecting people to be immediately available is unreasonable.

If you are external-customer-facing, then it can be more difficult. I had put the lack of staffing down to company greed and too much use of furlough. The first of those probably still applies. I don't know if people can't get through to call centres because the staff are WFH or because there just aren't enough of them or both.

Or, rather, management that doesn't adapt to WFH will ruin it for everyone. If they can't properly monitor productivity regardless of where an employee is they deserve to fail.

The anti-WFH rhetoric is so weird. When you were full time in the office and people would slack off, browse news sites all day, or go for a smoke break every 10 minutes, did you ever think "office working has gone too far?"

The problem, as always, is shit management. Not workers' locations.

I 100% agree with you. People not being available, doing all sorts and this was with a FTSE company with many reorganisations and line mgt changes. It meant the people taking the piss were never really brought to task.

We had someone in our team who had a separate line manager as she did a different role but same account.

We used to call her Lazy A. She was never around between the hours of 1530 and 1630. She stopped at the stroke of 1730 and literally put her phone in a drawer. Same at weekends.

I spoke to her line manager who was scared of her, he did nothing, her next line manager was doing similar so he wasn’t that bothered. Yes, it’s a company issue but the rest of us were covering for these lazy soda. In the end I left but it was rife for years.

I WFH in an organisation that does sort of hybrid working. I love it and find I get sooo much more done at home, the office is very distracting. I definitely think it’s a colleague issue you describe. In the 15 years I’ve worked from home I’ve come across lazy people in the office, and at home - it really depends on the person. I would personally never turn down a five minute chat for home reasons like ‘feeding the horses’ I can’t believe people actually do that?! I find at home it’s easier to have a quick chat with someone as you just ping them on teams whereas in the office you’d have to go and find them. Also everyone who WFH in mu organisation is always available during work hours, often more available than office based as they aren’t commuting/having chats at the coffee machine etc etc

Sorry, didn't read full thread, but YANBU. I used to hate WFH, it's so hard to talk to people. Casual chat in the office becomes a chore when you don't see actual people. It might work for industries where you work on projects (like IT), and then meet to catch up, but in most places it's not suitable work model. I used to have the most ridiculous situation with WFH and HMRC recently. I don't want to tell, as it's too outing (maybe this lady reads MN :D), but it's so ridiculous that you wouldn't believe 😵

There is a management issue at your workplace
My dh largely wfh and he is an adult and expected to manage his own work diary. As such aside from pickups and drop offs which he takes as time from his lunch break he doesn't schedule things during his working day. For instance he wants to go to our older two children's nativity play so instead of blocking out part of his work diary he would be expected to take the morning off. Anytime blocked out has to be explained.

Your manager is allowing people to take the mick and they need to address it. If they allow a great deal of flexibility and that doesn't work for you then I would put on notice and leave.

The great thing about WFH is not travelling miles to work, saving on petrol and parking..... and "what to wear today"!🙄

Hybrid lets companies shrink their building footprint – it’s usually combined with hot desking so for DP, he goes in 2 days a week and it’s the same day as his team, but other teams in the same building will go in on different days. So fewer desks and facilities overall. It works if you have the kind of job where you might need quiet, focus days and brainstorm blue sky hey guys let’s get creative and run this idea up the flagpole days. In reality DP treks in and there’s always someone off sick, on annual leave, on carers leave, at another site so they’re Zooming in anyway. Mostly his in-office hybrid days seem to be a chance for a team lunch somewhere nice instead of a sandwich al desko.

And bosses like hybrid because it satisfies the need to drag people into the office pointlessly while also giving a nod to the flexible benefits of WFH. Plus the facilities thing.

Exactly.

People who want to take the piss will always try and do so, and any work location can be used to try and facilitate that. Whether it be watching telly while wfh or spending all day gossiping, making brews and going on cigarette breaks in the office. But for some reason, the wfh piss taking seems to inspire a belief that it's the mode of working that's the problem whereas piss taking in a physical work location doesn't.

My husband worked from home way before the pandemic, he doesn’t do anything around the house during the day, if anything he can’t switch off and puts in more work hours. I do think some people take advantage of WFH though, I went shopping the other day mid morning /mid week (had day off) and the shops were heaving, why aren’t most of these people at work?

I am far more productive at home. I am available when my calendar says I will be and answer cold calls, unless I am making a cup of tea, which I did in the office too. I don't try to do home stuff during my working hours which helps. In the office, I would be interrupted every 15 mins by someone asking a question and making a cup of tea took ages thanks to kettle chat.

Thanks to Teams it is also very sociable really. The idea that people are sat not talking to anyone is outdated. Problems with individuals taking the mick are a management issue as pp said.

Mostly his in-office hybrid days seem to be a chance for a team lunch somewhere nice instead of a sandwich al desko.

So true!

@dutysuite You do know a lot of people work shifts?

Of course I do! 🙄

@lieselotte I would say not enough staff

People think WFH in a contact centre thag people are skiving but a lot don't understand how heavily monitored it is
I can't move from my desk or ignore calls. I get set breaks, my toilet/personal time is monitored, there are boards everywhere with our status on it, my boss knows how many calls I take, how long I spend handling them
My screen is recorded, everything!

I literally sit at my desk 8-5 except for breaks (and annual leave which is this week!)

Why? yearn to sit back in the office?

What is the difference from a classroom with a teacher/micromanager? why crave for this?
All that palava of the office uniform every morning - why?
The journey to work- why?
Tesco sandwiches - canteen food - why?
Colleagues are lovelybut why need to sit next to them? why?
Why pay extra to travel? why?
Why buy clothes to update the office wardrobe? for who and why?

You could be feeling the "missing out" dread, if so, change - make it more rewarding for yourself and learn new things because you will have more time having done the work quicker, thoroughly.
Join a group, make new friends - don't rely on office work to fulfill your life because it doesnt - the company will always be there if you leave them, they don't really care.

WFH isn't the same as flexible working, but I imagine a lot of you who don't like the idea of the flexibility WFH offers aren't going to like this: www.gov.uk/government/news/millions-of-britons-to-be-able-to-request-flexible-working-on-day-one-of-employment