To think WFH has gone too far now?

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I am very lucky to have a fully flexible role in a very understanding organisation. My colleagues come from a range of backgrounds and have various reasons for appreciating the level of flexibility we have - not all are parents.

We are now almost entirely home based, which in principle is fine but in practise becoming frustrating. Our work is desk based and requires quite a lot of collaboration.

My issue is that people are becoming so much harder to talk to in the day because it’s as if work fits in around their home life when it suits. Almost everything has to be booked in as a meeting, rarely is anyone available for a spontaneous call / chat on teams as you would have done in the office. We are supposed to be available core hours 10-4 for a 35 hr week, and either side of that as you see best.

Recent examples when I’ve sent a message to ask if people have five mins for a chat - sorry I’m making bread / feeding the horses / talking to the plumber etc etc. I’ve also noticed people are booking in more and more non-work appts in the working day yet still expect to clock off by 4.30. They are things which could easily be done before / after work day. We have a colleague (who does some important work for me) coming back from mat leave in summer who is planning to have her baby at home with her on at least a couple of her work days because flexibility.

AIBU to think that people are becoming less and less available and that it’s affecting our work and working relationships? I’m quite a collaborative person and I like exchanging ideas with colleagues (but I don’t overdepend on them before anyone starts!).

Starting to wonder if this is the right place for me but before I decide what to do I wanted to see what other peoples experiences are. This is not a large corporate company, it’s a small design firm where we work to super tight deadlines but we do lots of client facing work too eg pitches.

I'm with OP. I remember having a mediation session over zoom it didn't start on time and the woman leading it was "just making a cuppa".

I don't begrudge people WFH however when you can't access services it's really annoying.

There's reasons why people prefer it

@ivy If it was private ask for a partial refund. If public or charity services appointments are often very close so the person has no time to go to the toilet or get a drink. In that case I understand and she would have done the same face to face.

I'm of the opposite opinion to be honest, I worked for a large financial consulting firm when lockdown began and found that WFH I was expected to always be available. If I'd have been in the office or at a client site I would have finished for 5/6pm and gone home but because I was already at home, meetings scheduled to end at 5pm would go on until 7, people would ping me on teams at 10/11pm at night and expect me to be available. The lines between work and home life became so blurred and every day felt like Groundhog Day the only benefit was I didn't have a 2 hour commute on the start and end of each day and I could throw some washing on and actually make myself some lunch without spending a fortune in city centre over priced coffee shops.

I think it depends on the type of organisation you work for, I don't think it's acceptable for people to not be available for calls because they are baking bread in work hours or to go to appointments and still clock off at same time but that's where your business should manage the expectation of its employees. I think the benefits of home working outweigh the negatives but they do need to be managed effectively. I have a 6 month old baby and I'm on mat leave and when I go back to work she will be at nursery or child minders if I WFH, it is impossible to be objective with a child at home during working hours.

I'm WFH and was part of the week before covid as I moved a 3 hour commute away from my work. As I'd been there for 25 years my boss was keen for me to WFH and stay with the company and took my length of service into account. I also dropped a day to lessen the commute. Since covid I only go into office every 3 to 4 weeks. It makes no difference to my work as I am always available during work hours apart the usual toilet visits/ breaks for tea or lunch, just as I would be in the office. The people who are taking the piss should be called back into office. In no way would I be making bread etc during work hours! Or not be available as I'm carrying out personal duties. That is a joke. I also, on occasion, work after/before hours and on my day off for a few hours. My boss knows I am in no way at home skiving, it's only to save a 3 hour commute I don't go into office.

I work remotely too for an LGA but we wouldn't get away with that sort of thing. If you are working you should be available for meetings,calls etc. If someone is showing as green on Teams no reason you shouldn't ring them. Most people get their kids babysat or at nursery etc not have them at home unless someone else is there to look after them

I think that you are quite reasonable, but this is an issue that should be taken up with management, allowing them to make quite clear to the WFH force that these are, indeed, work hours, and that they MUST be available.

If someone is showing as green on Teams no reason you shouldn't ring them.

Except, you know, manners and work etiquette!

I appreciate this may vary by organisation and type of work but this would be looked on very poorly in my organisation, thank goodness. Someone is working which means they are likely busy, so just calling them randomly will disturb them and may be inconvenient and disruptive. You email is it's something quick otherwise book a meeting in their diary. Expecting people to be available to you whenever suits you is very rude and them not being so doesn't mean they aren't working, it's because they are working!!

But repeatedly not answering when your light is green will get you pulled up by your line manager where I work.

We're expected to be mostly available in core time to bounce ideas off each other, talk to service users, help trainees and just generally do our jobs.

We can use the busy/DND function occasionally to focus on certain projects, but it's made clear they know that some people use it to hide and opt out of work, particularly to get out of dealing with one of the sectors we work with and that it's not acceptable.

The green light says available - meaning available for communication.
You can change your status to busy if you're not available to talk.

We use Skype and Teams, green light means you're available to take calls but doesnt mean you have to take every call.

I'm quite often on my mobile on calls and so I may show as free/green but I'm not.

I agree if someone is always green and not answering any calls there is an issue, but iit's not a rule that you must answer.

I like wfh, I do chuck a wash on and on my break can whizz the hoover round. But I'm also not a pisstaker and get more done at home as I have peace and quiet.

I do collect my kids from school which takes 30 mins, but I work extra to make up for it and they're 10, 11 & 13 so can take care of themselves and not interrupt me.

I'll answer the door for the postman etc, if I'm in the kind of meeting I cannot just dash away from, I'll leave it.

I wfh, 1-day atm, was supposed to be 2 but I'm currently training a new recruit. I sometimes throw a wash on and take the dog out. Never been an issue with missed calls. We do contact each other if we need to and no problems so far.

Long Informal gossiping chats are discouraged either in person or via calls. As for socializing. I do socialize but only with a select few one of whom doesn't even work here anymore. Work for me is about work and earning money, people shouldn't be forced back to the office so staff have someone to play with on a night or a weekend.🙄

In my workplace it's polite to send a quick teams message asking if it's okay to call. If someone is in green I'd expect them to reply quickly.

I used to work in an office that offered mediation appointments, can confirm. Obviously people should still get their full session, it would be a problem if they didn't, so if that happened then it's worthy of a refund request. But appointments starting late because something beforehand had overrun/there's a packed schedule and the person you're seeing needs a piss and a drink is very common, and that's not because of wfh.

I would have loved to have WFH and will defend this concept. Having said that, the fault lies not with the concept of WFH, but with firms refusing to come to grips with the need to enforce proper working practices from home. Employees should be taken to task if they don't perform the job as well as they do from the office.

But they are though. My performance is still assessed at the end of the year, wherever I've worked from. It's about results where I work.

I completely agree with you and it's not just work colleawho may find this exasperating but us customers as well! Have always worked in a non wfh sector, if I'm not there the work can't be done simple! So absolutely yes too many people have become entitled and detached from what a working day means! You are paid to work not work to fit around your stuff at home as the rest of us have to do that shit when we actually physically get in after a long commute ffs.
I may sound cynical but that's because I AM! No envy, I love my job and how I am able to interact and help with those less fortunate. I have lots of friends who wfh who have a lot of spare time to chat message, have a hot tub lunch,have a wash done and dried, book tickets, do school runs etc. I have to pay for wrap around care to drive an hour to and back then tackle home stuff.

Do yanbu. I do apologise and recognise that many people who wfh are conscientious and responsible but I'm afraid I don't know many who are.

Rant over xx

This doesn’t sound normal wfh. Your managers need to start insisting that work hours are for work and that other appointments need to be made outside those hours unless permission is given.

@Justbefair i WFH and still have to pay for nursery/wraparound care, I wouldn’t have time for a hot tub lunch (dunno what that is but eating lunch in a hot tub?!) but to be fair I can book tickets and put a wash on my lunch break so that’s an advantage!

@Justbefair I can't help but agree- the piss takers are actually ruining it for the very many that really aren't and seem to be after full time wages for only part time work. If you want that position then you need to be self employed , so it's your own time you are wasting or officially be in a part time job- not taking the mickey out of an employer.

Is a hot tub lunch just eating in the hot tub? People can do whatever they want in their lunchtime.

Having said that, the fault lies not with the concept of WFH, but with firms refusing to come to grips with the need to enforce proper working practices from home. Employees should be taken to task if they don't perform the job as well as they do from the office.

I do wonder how people think this is going to be enforced in many cases though. With employers who are still sought after, yes, but there are plenty where the work isn't that popular or prestigious, don't pay that much and can't keep staff. There are certainly instances of organisations not having got their shit together, but there's probably at least some of this that comes down to some people understanding that lots of employers aren't actually in a situation where they can assume anything better is available.

@Justbefair and also on the booking tickets thing, plenty of people in the office in my role would also book tickets, do Xmas shopping online or whatever while supposed to be working so that’s not an advantage of working from home. I think the barometer should be if you get the work done and your stakeholders are happy, rather than where you are

Is this job in the public sector related to public service questions that need to be responded to 9-5?

Good question, but no. My work isn’t public facing - we have a contact centre for that. We do provide a dedicated 24/7 service to a specific section of queriers, but we have a rota that ensures there is always one of us available and these queries have always been by phone or online, not face to face (as that definitely wouldn’t suit those who send us queries). Why we ever thought we needed to be in an office to do the work we do…seems really silly now!

I prefer people booking my time to talk. Yesterday in the office I got fuck all done as so many people needed me. If I can schedule them then I can work around everyone.