To think WFH has gone too far now?

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I am very lucky to have a fully flexible role in a very understanding organisation. My colleagues come from a range of backgrounds and have various reasons for appreciating the level of flexibility we have - not all are parents.

We are now almost entirely home based, which in principle is fine but in practise becoming frustrating. Our work is desk based and requires quite a lot of collaboration.

My issue is that people are becoming so much harder to talk to in the day because it’s as if work fits in around their home life when it suits. Almost everything has to be booked in as a meeting, rarely is anyone available for a spontaneous call / chat on teams as you would have done in the office. We are supposed to be available core hours 10-4 for a 35 hr week, and either side of that as you see best.

Recent examples when I’ve sent a message to ask if people have five mins for a chat - sorry I’m making bread / feeding the horses / talking to the plumber etc etc. I’ve also noticed people are booking in more and more non-work appts in the working day yet still expect to clock off by 4.30. They are things which could easily be done before / after work day. We have a colleague (who does some important work for me) coming back from mat leave in summer who is planning to have her baby at home with her on at least a couple of her work days because flexibility.

AIBU to think that people are becoming less and less available and that it’s affecting our work and working relationships? I’m quite a collaborative person and I like exchanging ideas with colleagues (but I don’t overdepend on them before anyone starts!).

Starting to wonder if this is the right place for me but before I decide what to do I wanted to see what other peoples experiences are. This is not a large corporate company, it’s a small design firm where we work to super tight deadlines but we do lots of client facing work too eg pitches.

I am a huge fan of working from home/trusting people to do their job with the right management tools. I love the flexibility.

However, I also work in a semi-creative industry and I think the lack of team time together will massively affect us down the line, as we need to bounce ideas off each other in a way that is more spontaneous. Sometimes 'time-wasting' chats by the coffee machine are the ones we get ideas, extra knowledge or different perspectives from. So far, we haven't found a way to replicate that remotely

Yes I have read your answers, you’re keen to point out that you’re not a line manager through choice. Well monitoring your colleagues working hours isn’t your job then, stop doing it. You’re wasting work time and getting unnecessarily angry. If it’s affecting your output then speak to your manager.

My team have found instant messaging (via Slack etc) to be pretty good for this, though we're all digital natives who find online communication easy. We have a few chat groups going - one is for Professional Adult Communication and another is for shooting the shit (ie, where a lot of our ideas come from).

I think it depends where you work. I love WFH as I wouldn't be able to work without the option due to my disability. But we have to be avaliable on teams all day and are only allowed to book medical appointments during work hours. We can make a cup of tea etc but are expected to take calls.

When another teams manager asked everyone to return to office 9 out of 10 team members quit and they are struggling to recruit (not just the working from office being the issue here) so agreement is to continue remote. Office is being closed anyway as it is cheaper

This is a problem with your company management not a general one.

I see lots of threads on MN about WFH doesn't work, full of people not actually being available. Either they are exaggerated or the quality of management in UK companies is even worse than I thought. None of the clients I work for would regard this as normal or acceptable on a regular basis.

However I have seen clients where they simply haven't mastered working collaboratively whilst being remote. I've also seen people do precious little whilst in the office. Again - both are down to poor management.

I'd look for a company with better management skills if you think you are picking up other employees' slack.

We do the Slack thing as well, but for me, it's sometimes the knowledge that comes from the outside of the immediate team - just random people from the office that might be working on something else or even just considering smth, that we can then connect to or bounce off.

@gannett

Here's your actual problem: a crap line manager. A crap line manager would 100% be as crap in the office as WFH. Maybe in different ways but a potato is a potato. Sadly not an easily resolvable problem and you have my sympathy for that, I have been there

I think you’re probably right, I’ve thought about this and whether it’s sustainable, but having seen some of the responses and questions here I think it does increasingly come down to the individual. I don’t like the idea of having to decide whether I stay or go is because of this individual… it doesn’t seem the right thing for the organisation either, but perhaps that’s how I should be looking at it.

I got really frustrated with the work ethic of wfhers too.

I was really conscientious about being 100% available between 10-4, except lunch. Even feeling guilty about trips away from my desk to the loo in case anyone thought I was skiving off.

But then I'd try to arrange things with others and one said she couldn't do anything out of the house after 3pm because her DD was home then! Then others even senior managers interrupting meetings and training to get parcels at the door, deal with barking dogs etc.

Then there would be the ones who were on teams videos in their beds.

I found it all very unprofessional.

I'm really put off ever wfh even hybrid again. (I'd do the odd day where there's an admin deadline etc but not as routine)

I found it extremely stressful, isolating and made me not want to be in the house at all.

I can see both sides. On the one hand I do find the constant excuses annoying when we're trying go get stuff done (medical appointments etc are fine, but when it's problems with dogs, cars, neighbours etc - I get irritated. Pre-pandemic I might have finished at 4 to go get my car, but I wouldn't have thought it was acceptable to decline a meeting a week in advance because that's the day I was planning to get my car serviced).

On the other hand I have a couple of "have you got 5 minutes" colleague who also annoy me, as often I'm in the middle of something else and don't want to instantly abandon what I'm doing so they can have a bit of a moan. I much prefer it when people say "have you got some time today to talk about X as I'd really value your opinion" and then I can suggest a time for a call.

We have to go in a set number of days now and that’s better for me.

To be fair, in my company people often don’t answer Teams calls even when they’re in the office.

Diaries are blocked out for meetings or work, so you send an email and then you could also send a meeting invite to discuss.

I always answer my calls but I’m an anomaly.

I'm a bit older and also love slack as it means I have a choice whether I want to respond right now (often, when I have the choice, I do). Wish my current place used slack but they reckon Teams in 'the same' (obviously isn't)

Slack is 100 % better than Teams (which I actually hate with a passion), it is as close as it gets to normal interaction.

The "have you 5 minutes?" then expecting it to be the next 5 minutes, I actually find really annoying. There's a good chance I'm really focussed on something, and having to drop what I'm doing to answer someone's question, or have them bounce an idea off me, might only be 5 minutes for them, but will probably take me 15 minutes just to get back to where I was.

WFH means that those interuptions are far more managable, I can message back and say I will call you in 20. When I'm in the office, those who do this will just walk up to my desk and start talking at me. I get that you want some of my time, and I'm happy to oblige, but just not always on your time frame, so it doesn't start causing delays with my work.

It's not WFH that's the problem, it's your colleagues taking the piss. They are the ones who spoil it for the people who work just as hard or harder based from home.
It's a management issue. There should be clear rules about things like availability for calls.

I think where I work is well suited to wfh. We have multiple uk offices, international offices and quite a few people spend time at client sites. I'm on mat leave now but previously I was working on something quite closely with a colleague in New York - what difference did it make to either of us whether we were having our calls from home or from our respective offices. And even uk staff - pre covid if I wanted to speak to person X, I didn't know if they were at a client, at a different office, even if they were in the same office as me I didn't know where they were (hot desk set up due to so many people spending significant chunks out of their base office anyway). Adding in the possibility that they're also maybe at home doesn't make much difference as most communication was already virtual rather than face to face anyway.

I guess because there was already this way of working, adding in wfh didn't cause as many problems.

We are not just based from home, but my organisation has an ‘agile working’ policy. Staff are positively encouraged to fit work around their personal commitments and not the other way around.

I have to say, in my team, it works incredibly well. Performance is output based, meetings still take place. It’s very refreshing.

After the pandemic wfh seems to be something a lot of people expect to be able to do but it definitely does not suit all roles, nor does it suit all people. Personally, it used to drive me bonkers when I couldn't go into the office.

This, so much this!!!

I hate all the timewasters with a passion! That "5 min chat" was more often than not them not wanting to spend time doing their job and finding a way to make it do it for them. "Let me pick your brain" is often "stop what you're doing and help me instead" .

Good riddance!

It sounds like bad management to be honest. My partner WFH and their productivity has gone through the roof across the business! I guess good management and lots of scheduled appointments and meetings through the day so nobody can really "skive". People are also more honest so say "just getting the kids from school, I'll be back at 4" rather than at work when they'd just disappear at 3.15 never to be seen again 🤣
They did have hourly "check ins" when they were in the office so they've just kept up with it

I don't think it has gone too far. Works for many people, for others given their home life it does not and they should always have the option of an office to go to. Then there are some who do not have the option of some days wfh where it is just because the manager does not like it (probably because going to an office means he can dodge child care responsibilities and/or be the big I am etc).

Given the inflation level and that many jobs are unlikely to increase pay to match, saving travel costs even if only part of the week is a helpful proxy. Same as saving for some a 'work wardrobe'.

Covid has created a country of lazy, entitled whiners. Unless business leaders start demanding ‘back to the office or here’s your P45’ this will only get worse.

This again 🤦🏻‍♀️

I (encouraged by my manager) don't make myself available for 5 min spontaneous calls / chats (that turn into 30 min interuptions for something that could have been a 2 min email), 2-3 of them a day from different people on topics that are not a priority to me eat away at too much of my time. WFH makes it so much easier to avoid people who rock up at everyones desks rudely expecting an audience.

Yes I can sometimes answer/give you input to quickly resolve your issue, but it is usually shit you should already know or can find elsewhere with a little digging, or why cant you just make a decision or give it a try without seeking validation from everyone first? Your issue/work is not mine and if you want my time I'll send you to my manager to request it (and she will tell you to do one instead).

If I am busy I will ignore your ping, I will also decline meetings without a clear purpose or aligned to my current priorities. I might go and walk the dog at 11am, I dont care if it doesn't suit anyone else for "spontanous calls or if anyone feels the need to monitor my WFH movements. That is my lunch and I dont need to justify it to anyone, you might not start until 9 but I have been working 7-11 and have calls spanning timezones starting at 12. If I was in the office I would lose that sweet spot where I can get US and India together as the canteen only opens 12-1, but I guess the bonus would be I would know brenda from accounts had a lovely weekend in aviemore.

Do i load the washing machine / empty the dishwasher / vacuum the living room in working hours, hell yes at least one of them each day. Our company actively encourages 5-10 minute breaks where possible to get up and move around and don't dictate what you do during them.

WFH works positively for some companys and some people and has many advantages. If your company supports it and you cannot adapt to it, why should everyone else have to change to your preferred way of working to the detriment of their own ? Book a meeting with a clear purpose and i can then decide if walking the dog is more important.

This is the bit I absolutely love with wfh. I’m not unavailable because I’m feeding horses, talking to a plumber etc. I’m 100% available BUT I absolutely hate/hated it when people just rocked up to your desk in the office and started yakking, work related or not. Happy to speak but book that time with me ffs and wfh makes that so much easier to enforce.

I agree with @HoppingPavlova I much prefer people booking in time to speak to me about something rather constant interruptions. I can also plan better and maybe have answers in advance if I know what is expected.

If a time from someone is inconvenient, one thing I do which seems to work is say when it is (or a choice).