To think WFH has gone too far now?

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I am very lucky to have a fully flexible role in a very understanding organisation. My colleagues come from a range of backgrounds and have various reasons for appreciating the level of flexibility we have - not all are parents.

We are now almost entirely home based, which in principle is fine but in practise becoming frustrating. Our work is desk based and requires quite a lot of collaboration.

My issue is that people are becoming so much harder to talk to in the day because it’s as if work fits in around their home life when it suits. Almost everything has to be booked in as a meeting, rarely is anyone available for a spontaneous call / chat on teams as you would have done in the office. We are supposed to be available core hours 10-4 for a 35 hr week, and either side of that as you see best.

Recent examples when I’ve sent a message to ask if people have five mins for a chat - sorry I’m making bread / feeding the horses / talking to the plumber etc etc. I’ve also noticed people are booking in more and more non-work appts in the working day yet still expect to clock off by 4.30. They are things which could easily be done before / after work day. We have a colleague (who does some important work for me) coming back from mat leave in summer who is planning to have her baby at home with her on at least a couple of her work days because flexibility.

AIBU to think that people are becoming less and less available and that it’s affecting our work and working relationships? I’m quite a collaborative person and I like exchanging ideas with colleagues (but I don’t overdepend on them before anyone starts!).

Starting to wonder if this is the right place for me but before I decide what to do I wanted to see what other peoples experiences are. This is not a large corporate company, it’s a small design firm where we work to super tight deadlines but we do lots of client facing work too eg pitches.

I agree, working from home is so much harder than being in the office in many ways

Sitting around the desk at work, people could easily pipe up with any problems they were having or ideas they had and get an instant response from others in the team.

WFH we have a group chat set up on teams. If I post a message, if can often be an hour or two before someone spots the message and responds. Then another hour before someone else responds. Then you get the inevitable ‘I’ll have a look once I’ve picked the kids up from school / taken the dog to the vet’ etc message.

A problem that might have taken 10 minutes in the office can now take hours to resolve. I hate it.

I completely agree with you OP.

I find the culture takes over everyone. So initially you’d have people who were taking the piss and others who were still conscientious. But now it’s like everyone thinks oh well, if you can’t beat them, join them. And everyone has become equally disengaged/unproductive.

It’s possible some organisations manage it better and/or are more suited to WFH. But I also think that some people will just defend it until the end of time even though it’s not working because they love the flexibility it brings. I do understand that, especially with kids (I have two myself). Personally I do kind of miss the old way of working though.

It’s definitely a crap management in your company issue as opposed to wfh generally. We also have flexible working with core hours 10 - 4 and while on the odd occasion someone might need 10/15 mins to do something non work related such as your example of the plumber, they would flag that to their manager. There’s no way anybody would say nah, I’m baking bread/feeding the horses. If this is true of multiple colleagues then I can only think performance management, communication and processes in your company are particularly poor!

When I read threads like this (there’s been a few) I always think there’s no way these people went from being good, reliable employees to absolute piss takers just because they now wfh. I think the culture of presenteeism allowed some people to fly below radar because to some managers bums on seats meant working. In reality the shirkers you describe were the ones spending hours browsing online, having lengthy coffee breaks and finding any excuse to not get on with their work.

Exactly.

There's always someone who volunteers to make all the rounds of drinks, who spends hours doing "paperwork" which really only takes thirty minutes etc.

I think it’s great people can work to live rather than live to work, it takes a bit more organisation but it’s manageable. The culture is only likely to get more flexible.

I love WFH for exactly the reasons you describe OP. I can get so much done that I don’t have to waste my free time outside of work. And don’t even have to run dentist appointments etc past a manager.

As for the dreaded ‘spontaneous call/chat’ err no thanks. Even back in the office days those exact things should have been booked in IMO. Work is very rarely urgent enough to warrant distracting someone in the middle of a task.

You sound like you would be very frustrating to work with. Get better organised and use your calendar as a tool to plan your work/day and accept for most people (hint: all the ones you are complaining about) it is the best way to arrange an interruption in their work plans.

Super interesting perspectives thanks. A lot of questions as well that I will try to answer…

Don't management get involved and actually manage these people?
They did during COVID when it was all new but I think it has become accepted now and I do think they need to do more. I don’t line manage in my role (because I don’t want to) but one of the worst ones is one of our managers come to think of it. I haven’t spoken to mgmt about it because I am a huge beneficiary of the flexibility and lack of questioning, but I am always available and I always make up for lost time in the evening or weekend. I never see anyone online past 5.30, no matter what they’ve been doing in the day.

This is a 'your colleagues are taking the piss' issue

I think I agree with you. I often look down the teams list at eg 3pm and only two out of 10-15 people are in green. The others
miraculously appear if you send a message (teams on phones) but clearly not at desk.

You shouldn't feel embarrassed about not working flat out at warp speed the entire day

I agree with this when you say it like that, but I think we have slowed down to the point that for some people work seems to come second to home (during working hours) and our productivity is falling. I do agree with comments above about this being individual rather than cultural though, and that it needs better managing.

perhaps your colleagues are trying to subtly push you in the direction of not interrupting them all the time

Fair challenge that I had anticipated. Tbh - if a five min question once or twice a week is an interruption and I’m expected to email it or book a meeting just to talk to someone (with close team members rather than distant colleagues) then it’s no wonder I feel like our cohesion as a team is being affected. I don’t want to work or live in a world where every single interaction is diarised and time managed, that’s the big difference to being in office. Initially people did this all the time, but people complained there were too many meetings so they stopped. I don’t want everything just to be reduced to a chain of emails.

I completely lost interest in work and I increasingly saw it as a chore that I had to fit around my home life. I also completely detached from the company and started looking for other jobs

This really resonates! I think it is that people are detaching, you’ve definitely nailed it. I feel detached because I do think communication is suffering, in part because other people have generally been allowed to detach.

sorry I haven’t answered everything - but will keep reading and really interested in responses.

My work is now hybrid so 2 days (sometimes 3) in the office and 2-3 at home. It's a good balance provided no one takes the piss. For me the saving on the commute means I can do longer days/fit more in when I'm at home. When I'm in the office I schedule face to face meetings and can leave at a sensible time because of my longer wfh days. I'm a lawyer and there's definitely a business need for face to face. Not just for clients and court hearings but for the benefit of junior lawyers as they learn so much just hearing you negotiating on the phone or in meetings. It's also great to have the flex on wfh days. We no longer need our evening nanny as between us we can manage after school club pick ups etc. Also great for parcel deliveries and, yes, getting a plumber round though that's not regular occurrence than goodness!

In general because we have to record every minute of our time, both chargeable and non-chargeable, it's blindingly obvious if someone isn't pulling their weight because it's all in black and white statistics at the end of the week.

There have been pisstakers though. Some who've thought work was optional on wfh days. These were also the people who regularly failed to turn up on their official office days because they levered to save the train fare and childcare fees. I'm a line manager and had to run a few performance reviews when a firm/polite chat didn't do the trick. Some did improve. Others ended up leaving in a huff (though they'll have the same issue at their new firm) or being made redundant following a merger/restructure. It was a genuine redundancy situation (my own role was up for redundancy) but it presented a helpful opportunity to have a "skills audit " and get rid of the dead wood.

Unfortunately I think that's just life. Some people are grafters and others are pisstakers.

I will say the thing I don't like about wfh is the impromptu teams calls. It seems a bit aggressive, like someone barging into the room when I'm busy with something else. I feel I have to answer so as to confirm I'm not one of said pisstakers. Whereas if I was working away in the office and obviously in the middle of something someone would pass by my desk, clock that and come back later. I much prefer scheduling calls. I will always make time for them though. I don't have horses to feed! And I don't do housework in working hours except maybe quickly unloading the dishwasher while the kettle boils.

Agree with others it’s not a wfh issue it’s a company/colleagues issue.

im back in the offfice and have been since mid 2020 (when we were allowed back in skeleton staff only). My kids went back to nursery and work is near there so made sense for me to be back in

I do work from home on occasion though. Last Monday I did as I had to do the afternoon school run. Boss was aware of this though and I started early to make up any time lost to distraction when the kids were home.

I do throw a wash on if I’m home. Then take a break when it’s done to make a coffee and throw the laundry in the dryer.

and I have wfh to coincide with plumber or whoever. But again. Boss is aware this is the reason and I make up the time.

your colleague with the horses. How did they manage when in office? Or are the horses a new addition?

This is how it feels it should work - and how I’d be most comfortable with it working

I also wfh and this is not my experience. I probably work longer hours than I've ever worked before. I have more meetings in my diary than ever, often completely back to back. And when I do get five minutes to actually 'do' invariably someone sees I'm green and calls, messages me or emails. I'm sure there are some in the organisation who take the piss, but generally I find people are very accessible and hard working. Of course they have personal appointments during the day sometimes but I trust them to manage their workload and work later/ earlier to get things done when necessary.

I don't think this is a wfh issue generally, but a problem with your workplace. Is your colleague on mat leave being open about having her baby with her for a couple of days?? That wouldn't be tolerated at the vast majority of companies.

A problem that might have taken 10 minutes in the office can now take hours to resolve

I have found this, very much to my detriment over the year, that it has taken me much much longer to resolve something because other people weren’t around.

As for the dreaded ‘spontaneous call/chat’ err no thanks. Even back in the office days those exact things should have been booked in IMO. Work is very rarely urgent enough to warrant distracting someone in the middle of a task. You sound like you would be very frustrating to work with. Get better organised and use your calendar as a tool to plan your work/day and accept for most people (hint: all the ones you are complaining about) it is the best way to arrange an interruption in their work plans

I knew there would be one! Problem here is that people appear to be feeling distracted / interrupted when they are doing totally non work related jobs, during our core hours. Why and how exactly should I be organising my day around their spontaneous trips out and housework? And why should a problem have to be urgent for people to speak to each other, helping each other out for a few minutes can not only save someone time on whatever they’re doing, it can also help to make people feel more supported, motivated and part of the team which is what I think we are losing

When I'm WFH it's very much business as usual and I'm expected to be present at my laptop for my usual hours. I would only be nipping out if I had an emergency or it allows a bit of flexibility for appointments but I would have to check with the boss first the same if I was in the office.

99% of spontaneous calls/chats on Teams when I’m wfh interrupt my workflow – or how I’ve planned my flexible day, in which I’m perfectly capable of going to feed a horse for half an hour then working those 30 minutes later (for horse substitute sandwich, tea, fresh air) – but worse, could have all been a non-urgent email query, answered with 10 seconds of looking on the intranet, or are someone just looking to talk but disguising it under “clarifying the task”, eg “Hiya, just calling about the Word doc you asked me to proofread – is that just a proofread then? And it’s the doc you attached to the email? And am I just following our standard version control system that we never deviate from? Anyway so bored today, fancy a chat?” FUCK. OFF.

I see both perspectives but am glad we have a better balance now where, if work or life has to be privileged, it's life.

OP you do realise Teams goes yellow if you're at your laptop with Teams open but are working in another program? E.g. Outlook, Word, web?

And yes you have a management problem not a WFH problem. CFs don't need WFH to be CFs.

I think about the office timewasters a lot. This is one of the huge perks to my new 100% WFH role. I don't have to listen to their absolute drivel wasting literally hours of the day talking about anything but work. And I don't have to put up with the bullying and exclusion of the ridiculously long lunch breaks where I was pointedly not invited to go out with the rest of them.

WFH has been a revelation, I enjoy my work so much more and can get so much more done.

Done properly and with people who WANT to wfh, it's civilized

Unfortunately I think that's just life. Some people are grafters and others are pisstakers

I think you’re right, although I do wonder if my organisation attracts / retaken the pisstakers to some degree as it is SO flexible.

As for the horses, yes they were a lockdown addition!

On the days when I work from home I’ll sometimes take time to go water the garden for example, but I always have my phone and AirPods and I answer it if it rings,

Swings and roundabouts though, I’ve already worked 9 hours overtime yesterday and today.

I suspect the days of widespread WFH are definitely numbered. Within 2-3 years most of us will be back in the office

OP you do realise Teams goes yellow if you're at your laptop with Teams open but are working in another program? E.g. Outlook, Word, web?

No - all our files are run through teams so they’re autosaving every few seconds when we are working across applications. We don’t save anything to desktop.

I think this is a your workplace problem.

Where I work we do a hybrid, min. 3 days per week in the office with everyone in on the same day.

It works really well, best of both worlds really.

We however don’t have flexible hours (unless individually agreed), if you wfh your hours are expected to be the same as those in the office. So everyone is still available for impromptu calls.

So, has 'doing the school run' become a standard reason nowadays for being absent from your desk for, let's say half an hour, twice a day? I keep seeing people mention it as if it's an expectation.
But then what? You pick those kids up from school and presumably they're then at home in the house (needing attention) when you're meant to be back at your desk?
I'd bet my last dollar they don't all miraculously sort themselves out independently for the next hour or two.

As for the colleague with the baby… my assistant had another child over covid, and working from home allowed her to come back earlier and work more hours than she otherwise would have been able too. She might have resigned altogether if we couldn’t WFH. And she’s a valuable employee. I know when she’s at home with the kids she may not answer an email right away. But then she’ll email me at 10 at night as shell keep working after the kids are in bed. I trust her to get things done, and I don’t count the minutes.

Is your colleague on mat leave being open about having her baby with her for a couple of days

not entirely no, but she’s shared it with me and doesn’t think it’s something she should have to tell people