To think WFH has gone too far now?

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I am very lucky to have a fully flexible role in a very understanding organisation. My colleagues come from a range of backgrounds and have various reasons for appreciating the level of flexibility we have - not all are parents.

We are now almost entirely home based, which in principle is fine but in practise becoming frustrating. Our work is desk based and requires quite a lot of collaboration.

My issue is that people are becoming so much harder to talk to in the day because it’s as if work fits in around their home life when it suits. Almost everything has to be booked in as a meeting, rarely is anyone available for a spontaneous call / chat on teams as you would have done in the office. We are supposed to be available core hours 10-4 for a 35 hr week, and either side of that as you see best.

Recent examples when I’ve sent a message to ask if people have five mins for a chat - sorry I’m making bread / feeding the horses / talking to the plumber etc etc. I’ve also noticed people are booking in more and more non-work appts in the working day yet still expect to clock off by 4.30. They are things which could easily be done before / after work day. We have a colleague (who does some important work for me) coming back from mat leave in summer who is planning to have her baby at home with her on at least a couple of her work days because flexibility.

AIBU to think that people are becoming less and less available and that it’s affecting our work and working relationships? I’m quite a collaborative person and I like exchanging ideas with colleagues (but I don’t overdepend on them before anyone starts!).

Starting to wonder if this is the right place for me but before I decide what to do I wanted to see what other peoples experiences are. This is not a large corporate company, it’s a small design firm where we work to super tight deadlines but we do lots of client facing work too eg pitches.

@lieselotte that's still unprofessional if you're in a meeting

So £100 a month for the privilege of working! It won't be cheaper than travelling to work for me and I have no intention of building an extension - even if I had a big enough garden again I would view it as paying to work. It won't affect heating bills in my case either, DH is retired and is home most days so we'll have the heating on anyway.

Around here you pay around £375pm plus VAT.

I can imagine it wouldn't be far off that here @Simonjt. I can't imagine finding much for £100 here!

Why should I pay £25 a week for an office. If I need an office work should provide it.
And only rich people build offices in their gardens, that is not your average worker.

That's interesting to hear. If you're struggling to recruit, I can totally see why a manager might be disinclined to try and be stricter. There's no guarantee it's going to result in any more work being done overall, especially when a staff member is doing ok in general and it's just that the company would prefer to get more out of them.

Obviously there are still some companies and sectors where employers can have their pick so these issues don't apply, but there are plenty of cases where it's an employees market now. And I'm not sure the discussions that tend to happen on MN necessarily factor that in.

I knew there would be one! Problem here is that people appear to be feeling distracted / interrupted when they are doing totally non work related jobs, during our core hours. Why and how exactly should I be organising my day around their spontaneous trips out and housework? And why should a problem have to be urgent for people to speak to each other, helping each other out for a few minutes can not only save someone time on whatever they’re doing, it can also help to make people feel more supported, motivated and part of the team which is what I think we are losing

I can almost hear you rolling your eyes as you type this. The thing is, there isn’t ‘one’, is there? Several people on this thread have made the same point about disliking being interrupted because someone has decided they absolutely have to talk right now rather than checking if they’re free. More importantly, several of your colleagues don’t like these ‘quick calls’ - that’s why they ask you to put time in their diary. Maybe YOU find it super-convenient and a lovely team-building experience, but it’s a two-way process. Maybe you’re the one out of step.

You say it shouldn’t have to be urgent for you to expect someone to stop what they’re doing to help you, but you imply a sense of urgency when you ask them to do that. It’s saying “I know you might be doing something already, but what I want is more important. Stop what you’re doing and help meeeeeee!” It suggests your time is more valuable than theirs. And the problem with that is, you become the girl who cried wolf. When you really do need someone urgently, they’ll be thinking “Oh, it’s always urgent with her 🙄”

Maybe now that you can’t just pop over to their desks, people have learned to say no.

That comment just about sums you up. Maybe you should come back to the discussion when you’re a woman rather than a girl.

@WomanStanleyWoman2 such a strange attempt at an insult

I’m just happy there are options for people now. I was ok working in an office 20+ years ago, when you had your own office or maybe shared with one other person. Open plan has been hell for me. It’s sensory overload. I can’t tune out multiple conversations, people talking on the phone, or the annoying continual throat clearer I used to have to sit next to! When I’m working at home, my house is completely silent. It’s perfect for me. I’m so much more focused and I definitely do a better job.

People that don’t like wfh can look for roles that require more time in the office. Previously, those who struggled with an office environment had very few options. I think it’s brilliant we now have choices.

Several people on this thread have made the same point about disliking being interrupted because someone has decided they absolutely have to talk right now rather than checking if they’re free. More importantly, several of your colleagues don’t like these ‘quick calls’ - that’s why they ask you to put time in their diary. Maybe YOU find it super-convenient and a lovely team-building experience, but it’s a two-way process. Maybe you’re the one out of step.

This is the thing, there's obviously quite a variety of opinion about the value of these spontaneous discussions. One person's helpful bouncing off ideas that makes their life much easier is another person's interruption of concentration that makes their life much harder. People have very different ways of working and one isn't more valid than another.

People that don’t like wfh can look for roles that require more time in the office.

So I should leave my job basically because my home isn't big enough to WFH comfortably? If companies value their staff they should take their living arrangements into account. It's not as though I've downsized to make life difficult, I've lived there 15 years!

While I see your point, no one cared that the vast majority of my office was against going open plan. It was a case of suck it up and deal with it. I’ve had so many unpleasant environmental changes forced on me in the office. I had that choice then, deal with it or leave. Eventually I did leave when a wfh job came up and took a pay cut in the process. That’s how it goes.

I think it’s fascinating that for decades offices have been places which can be difficult for those with disabilities, and are centred around extroverts. Anyone complaining was told to find another job, that’s just how it is, etc.

Now that there’s suddenly an option that allows people with disabilities to manage with around their conditions, and actually helps introverts, all hell breaks loose and it must immediately be stopped. Even hybrid isn’t enough for those who want to be back in the office - they need everyone back so that they have people to chat to.

I love WFH and we have fantastic collaboration virtually. Just with no people chatting with each other loudly right by your desk and/or asking what your desk photos are of/eating smelly food around you. Love it.

I totally agree.
Open-plan offices are hell. Noisy, hard to focus and constantly being interrupted. It is very hard to do zoom calls in open-plan offices but all your objections are just met with you can use meeting rooms - meeting rooms that are booked up.
Nobody gave a shit.

I think it’s fascinating that for decades offices have been places which can be difficult for those with disabilities, and are centred around extroverts. Anyone complaining was told to find another job, that’s just how it is, etc.
Now that there’s suddenly an option that allows people with disabilities to manage with around their conditions, and actually helps introverts, all hell breaks loose and it must immediately be stopped

Yep!

People that don’t like wfh can look for roles that require more time in the office. Previously, those who struggled with an office environment had very few options. I think it’s brilliant we now have choices
it’s really not that easy. I have been looking but I can’t find anywhere with more time in the office. So no, I don’t have more choices. I had more choices before lockdown when the places I worked were moving to hybrid for those who wanted to but take up was limited. But now it’s enforced that you can’t come in, or you can but no-one is there, so why bother.

But why should people come into the office who do not want to come in, just so you are happier?
I can go into the office and sometimes need to, but I see virtually no one.

Well there are winners and losers, clearly, I now spend all day, every day alone. My work does not involve contact with other. I can go all week and not talk to anyone. I have kids so I can’t go out in the evening to get social interaction. It’s hell. Absolute hell. So yes, hell has broken into my life.

There are indeed winners and losers, and it was ever thus. We just don't seem as a society to have bothered acknowledging that prior to March 2020.

I would go in more often if I was allowed to but H&S rules mean I can't be on my own. Because of that my view is work and customers can suck it up if they don't like me answering the doorbell, having calls in earshot of DH (we were told to remember confidentiality - what am I supposed to do, throw him out?), having the washing on during the day.

I reckon that's fair enough on your part!

Not where I worked. I worked for two employers who offered hybrid. The difference now is all the places I know, it’s now a requirement rather than an option.

I can't speak to any specific workplace other than those I'm familiar with myself, I'm talking about wider society. It was certainly the case that fewer workplaces offered either fully remote or hybrid prior to lockdown, and obviously this was detrimental to some people who weren't able to access suitable working arrangements.

I have seen lots of disabled people saying working from home has meant they could get a job for the first time. To many getting to an office and then dealing with a building not set up for their needs makes getting a job too difficult.