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Original poster

To not understand why some people are so against employment?

91 replies

MilkyYay · 04/12/2022 13:38

I'm on a local whatsapp group and we have a few people on there who are badly struggling (financially) but continue to pursue only various "businesses" or self employment options and will not consider any form of job working for an employer.

Its really hard to know how to respond, two in particularly will regularly message the group asking what we think of their latest "business venture idea" and they are always terrible. Poorly thought out, based on what's easy rather than what there's a demand for, often complete copycat of things there are already several of. They will try out something new every 4-6 months and fail "because of the economy", while also saying how skint they are. Not mlm either.
Things like:

  • buying and reselling items on vinted at a mark up
  • buying very cheap knock off kids items (character tat mainly) on amazon & reselling it on market stalls
  • making bog standard candles & trying to sell for high prices
  • getting t-shirts and jumpers printed with fairly naff slogans and selling at high prices

Am i missing something? What's so bad about getting an ordinary job? What's so appealing about this sort of buy/sell "business" as a main occupation? There are a lot of jobs around where we live & a massive range of flexible options - several childcare providers offering school hours jobs, lots of evening and weekend, choices of full & part time options are available.

OP posts:
Slimjimtobe · 04/12/2022 13:39

I know someone like this - buy a cheap white mug and print a silly slogan and charge a tenner
but haven’t much in the way of earnings overall

Original poster
MilkyYay · 04/12/2022 13:41

It sounds like quite a lot of faff/effort to me too so to be clear, I'm not implying they're workshy as they are clearly trying really hard, i just don't get whats so appealing about trying to start businesses if they don't bring in any money

OP posts:
Cheesuswithallama · 04/12/2022 13:45

In my experience it's usually unemployable people like this. But they don't amit they are unemployable, they claim they are too good for employment. In reality their work ethic, ability to work with people etc asre often lacking.

It's really harsh, but this is from people I met who proclaim "they couldn't be an employye, it sould kill their spirits". Nah mate, you would kill spirits of everyone around and interviewers knew it

PlaitBilledDuckyPuss · 04/12/2022 13:46

What's so bad about getting an ordinary job?

I suppose it's the feeling of being tied. I've always been employed, never self-employed and the one thing I don't like is being unable to take time off when I want - I mean, having to book holidays to fit in with other people and so on.

I wouldn't want to be self-employed, though - I'm not at all entrepreneurial.

I'm guessing these folk you're talking about have other sources of income, as I can't imagine making a living wage from the sort of activities you're talking about.

PauliesWalnuts · 04/12/2022 13:47

My brother had habit of doing this. Any get rich quick scheme going although he drew the line at MLM. My theory was that he didn’t work well at school and hated it, left with one GCSE, but wanted all the trappings of a wealthy life without having to study. Didn’t work and he died of illness with a couple of hundred quid in the bank.

RandomPerson42 · 04/12/2022 13:47

Dreams of making it big lol

Truth is 99.9% of people make much more money being employed.

I’ve been on both sides of the coin and know how hard it is to build a business.

Then some people can’t stand being told what to do - having a boss.

Original poster
MilkyYay · 04/12/2022 13:47

Yes maybe i suppose. I know one of the guys on the group did work for about 15 years but now seems determined to get a business up and running, primarily its buying cheap stuff and selling it on but he always just seems to be out of pocket with stuff no one wants as they can get it themselves on amazon for less

OP posts:
musicandpassion · 04/12/2022 13:50

PauliesWalnuts · 04/12/2022 13:47

My brother had habit of doing this. Any get rich quick scheme going although he drew the line at MLM. My theory was that he didn’t work well at school and hated it, left with one GCSE, but wanted all the trappings of a wealthy life without having to study. Didn’t work and he died of illness with a couple of hundred quid in the bank.

This is what my cousin is pretty much like. Her husband earns £££ though, so she won't die with a few hundred in the bank, but she'll probably die with ££££ credit card debt.

FatAgainItsLettuceTime · 04/12/2022 13:51

I think a lot of people are trying to find ways to make money that they can do very flexibly around childcare. Paid employment is an obvious solution to making money, but if it requires you to be doing a fixed task, usually outside the house for several hours a day 52 weeks a year then it's hard and expensive to manage around 13 weeks of school holidays and school hours of 9-3.

I was able to manage it because I am paid well for my job so can afford £43 a day holiday club and £11 a day afterschool club or when they were younger, £55 a day nursery. If you only earn minimum wage £9.50 an hour (assuming your over 23) and out of that you have to pay £5 a day bus ticket and £55 a day nursery, it makes more sense to try to work for yourself at home, in the evening when the kids are in bed.

luxxlisbon · 04/12/2022 13:51

I mean if you work flexibly around your children, buying/selling things etc you need to earn a whole lot less than if you needed childcare to work.
If you are only qualified for low income work you aren’t left with a whole lot after childcare.

Original poster
MilkyYay · 04/12/2022 13:57

I think a lot of people are trying to find ways to make money that they can do very flexibly around childcare.

This I totally get but there are SO many local preschool & nursery classes desperate for staff, school hours and all the school holidays & inset days off because they match with the school dates.

OP posts:
malificent7 · 04/12/2022 13:57

I am an employee but I can think of LOTS of benefits to not being employed.

  1. Don't have to answer to anyone.
  2. No getting reprimanded/ put on a performance review/ getting spoke down to.
  3. Being able to come and go as you please, take whatever breaks you want, wear whatever you want.
  4. No workplace bullying.
  5. No having to pay lip service to whatever scheme, innovation, change is being touted.
  6. No real workplace politics....sigh.

However...in the downside no money or pension.🤷‍♀️

Candlesoftime · 04/12/2022 13:59

Poor self esteem when it comes to jobs? I've felt surprised before how often i find out that someone hates their job but is so lacking in confidence (even when not true) that they daren't put themselves out there and try. Also, some people really struggle with job applications and come across really badly - so maybe a few knock backs has made them feel a bit s h it about it too

Original poster
MilkyYay · 04/12/2022 14:03

@Candlesoftime that makes a lot of sense

OP posts:
thelobsterquadrille · 04/12/2022 14:06

MilkyYay · 04/12/2022 13:57

I think a lot of people are trying to find ways to make money that they can do very flexibly around childcare.

This I totally get but there are SO many local preschool & nursery classes desperate for staff, school hours and all the school holidays & inset days off because they match with the school dates.

But you need qualifications to do jobs like that.

TheLightSideOfTheMoon · 04/12/2022 14:06

I’ve met a few people like this.

One used to post regular FB posts about how if you work you’re part of the problem and not the solution. He may well still post this stuff. I removed him.

DP had a staff member who left after a month because he ‘refused to be part of the system’.

Personally I’d leave the What’sApp group.

FatAgainItsLettuceTime · 04/12/2022 14:07

MilkyYay · 04/12/2022 13:57

I think a lot of people are trying to find ways to make money that they can do very flexibly around childcare.

This I totally get but there are SO many local preschool & nursery classes desperate for staff, school hours and all the school holidays & inset days off because they match with the school dates.

Lots of nurseries and preschools hire on minimum hours and flex to meet ratios, so you might be hired on 8hrs a week guaranteed only and be expected to take on extra shifts at late notice if someone calls in sick or can't work that day. If you are on minimum wage and claiming top up benefits then you can end up being penalised and having UC cut if you work full time to cover those shifts for a month. That makes it very difficult to pay the bills the next month when the nursery only wants you 8 hrs a week so you get paid 25% of what you did the month before and don't get any help with your rent from UC because of the previous months higher pay.

CocoLux · 04/12/2022 14:07

Often they're the people who can't hold down an actual job, but try and make a virtue of it.

thelobsterquadrille · 04/12/2022 14:11

As an aside, I'm self-employed (I run a proper, profitable business) and I would hate to go back to being employed now.

woodhill · 04/12/2022 14:16

malificent7 · 04/12/2022 13:57

I am an employee but I can think of LOTS of benefits to not being employed.

  1. Don't have to answer to anyone.
  2. No getting reprimanded/ put on a performance review/ getting spoke down to.
  3. Being able to come and go as you please, take whatever breaks you want, wear whatever you want.
  4. No workplace bullying.
  5. No having to pay lip service to whatever scheme, innovation, change is being touted.
  6. No real workplace politics....sigh.

However...in the downside no money or pension.🤷‍♀️

Yes well explained

whatwasIgoingtosay · 04/12/2022 14:19

The people I know who don't work for an employer are all 'misfits' in one way or another and feel they wouldn't fit in, in a paid work environment. But they do all manage to get by with a series of freelance and casual jobs, although none is well off.

gianfrancogorgonzola · 04/12/2022 14:19

Also self employed - profitable business - arguably I could make more money in employment BUT I’d have to work more hours, commute further and general be beholden to other people!

I am jealous of sick pay And pensions though, I have a SIPP but obviously no employer contributions. So much so I’m considering moving to employment in my late forties / fifties Depending on how our finances are looking.

It would break my heart though, my business is quite niche, I’ve built it from scratch totally on my own, and I love it.

Spidey66 · 04/12/2022 14:24

My dad was self employed, but in a proper industry (building company) and did very well in it and financially was far better off than me as a nurse. But he had a very strong work ethic.

I'd rather be an employee though as you get sick pay, annual leave and an NHS pension. He always seemed to be working, my free time is my own!

Sindonym · 04/12/2022 14:27

PlaitBilledDuckyPuss · 04/12/2022 13:46

What's so bad about getting an ordinary job?

I suppose it's the feeling of being tied. I've always been employed, never self-employed and the one thing I don't like is being unable to take time off when I want - I mean, having to book holidays to fit in with other people and so on.

I wouldn't want to be self-employed, though - I'm not at all entrepreneurial.

I'm guessing these folk you're talking about have other sources of income, as I can't imagine making a living wage from the sort of activities you're talking about.

I never had any time Off when self employed. Always felt I should be working. I am loving being employed because I can get actual time off.

Snnowflake · 04/12/2022 14:29

I hated having to be in one place for 8 hours with people I mostly didn’t hit it off with- I’m not a great mixer. I didn’t like school much either.

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