To not understand why some people are so against employment?

[MilkyYay]

I'm on a local whatsapp group and we have a few people on there who are badly struggling (financially) but continue to pursue only various "businesses" or self employment options and will not consider any form of job working for an employer.

Its really hard to know how to respond, two in particularly will regularly message the group asking what we think of their latest "business venture idea" and they are always terrible. Poorly thought out, based on what's easy rather than what there's a demand for, often complete copycat of things there are already several of. They will try out something new every 4-6 months and fail "because of the economy", while also saying how skint they are. Not mlm either.
Things like:

• buying and reselling items on vinted at a mark up
• buying very cheap knock off kids items (character tat mainly) on amazon & reselling it on market stalls
• making bog standard candles & trying to sell for high prices
• getting t-shirts and jumpers printed with fairly naff slogans and selling at high prices

Am i missing something? What's so bad about getting an ordinary job? What's so appealing about this sort of buy/sell "business" as a main occupation? There are a lot of jobs around where we live & a massive range of flexible options - several childcare providers offering school hours jobs, lots of evening and weekend, choices of full & part time options are available.

Whereas I find it much easier to take time off being self-employed, lol.

Maybe it depends on the industry.

It's surprising what people will spend their money on to be fair. And some people have made decent ebay businesses which are now expanding into vinted - you have to be pretty relentless though. Vinted I think you can make much more as buyers don't seem to mind paying the mark up - I've made a fair whack selling my own stuff. I imagine you'd make more that way than the MLM schemes like Avon or scentsy.

My DH has a side hustle which has, at times, been more profitable than his day job as a well paid professional.

You sound like my dad. I only remember him completely switching off Easter Sunday and Monday, Christmas day and Boxing day, and for 3 weeks in the summer when we went to Ireland to see his family. Even Sundays, he'd take us to Church (we were brought up RC) have his roast dinner then back doing his paper work.

I agree there are people who are unemployable. People who can't keep their mouth shut with management bullshit, people who can't work to fixed times because of chronic illness (good and bad days), people who struggle fitting into a workplace.

I’m good at taking time off now (8- 9 years in) but it’s a skill you have to learn.

also agree with being very motivated / driven- I feel like quitting at least three times a week but somehow keep going! People who go self employed for an easy life are in for a shock particularly in the first few years when you have to really graft to get it off the ground

I think it is also because people are embarrassed to say they work in a supermarket, fast food place or factory/warehouse. From a young age we are told that if we don’t work hard enough that is all we will be good for so I think there can be a sense of shame which is ridiculous because of the benefits and regular pay not to mention opportunities of qualifications and furthering your career that come with employment. But those negative words from a teacher or a parent about say, working in McDonalds, can have a lasting effect.

Yup. They’re lazy and entitled most likely.

Because there are no shortage of grifters on social media telling people that they can "hustle" like this and "earn bank". Most of these "businesses" will only ever be side projects if the individuals can't get hold of some capital at some point. Some are just MLMs/pyramid schemes sadly.

However, we live in a free society and they are free to make that choice.

I'm a bit like this. I have been self-employed for years now(I feel like I have to add with a profitable business although who knows what the next few years hold). I'm not much of a people person, I'm quiet and awkward and hated feeling like I had to make crappy small talk all of the time. I don't know if I will ever go back to employment but things have been complicated for me now with an arthritis diagnosis recently, I struggle to sit for any longer than half an hour, can't stand for long periods of time, can't use my hands properly for lots of things or for any prolonged period of time and am feeling generally useless. I don't think I would have the confidence to try for employment when my health is in the shitter like it is at the moment. I found myself googling jobs where you don't need hands recently and the results were pretty grim.

I think @FatAgainItsLettuceTime has a good point. It's not always practical to be employed.

This I totally get but there are SO many local preschool & nursery classes desperate for staff, school hours and all the school holidays & inset days off because they match with the school dates.

And you want these types of people to educate and care for your children?

I suppose there will be lots of different reasons but I can understand why people don't want to be beholden to employers who offer minimum hours, if any, at minimum wage and then expect you to be completely at their beck & call. If employers have jobs that need doing, give proper employment contracts for them. How people can run family & private lives if they have no guaranteed minimum hours, but are expected to turn in with next to no notice, is beyond me.

And we're now seeing employers being allowed to sack their entire staff and take on people for £3 an hour etc. I'm not at all surprised, and wouldn't judge, people who want to opt out of it all and try to do something for themselves.

Most jobs are shit, stressful, underpaid, unfair bonus schemes, little flexibility, low holiday allowance. Often strict, patronising, punitive. The list goes on.
The business ventures do sound hopeless though.

A lot of people think they're daring and unconventional and "see through bullshit" when what they actually are is totally up themselves and too special to compromise in the smallest way...

I know someone who is university educated to do a professional job. They quit after a few years (husband at the time was doing very well, self employed, mostly because he was doing cash in hand). She then presented herself as a well off stay at home mummy, shopping and having treatments and moaning about how busy she was.
Husband had to stop the cash in hand thing because he was close to getting in trouble, so they had much less money. She refused to go back to her job and has spend 15 year starting ‘businesses’ of different kinds, loves setting up websites, getting branding, they always fail. They’ve often costed them thousands.
She has another one now, that if she did working for someone else she would be well off, I doubt she’s making any decent money. Or if she had done her original job would have a decent pension soon.
She definitely thinks she needs to have business and be special, calls herself Director etc.

her husband who doesn’t understand these things thinks she will get the pension for the original job she had, like the full entitlement because that’s what she’s told him. She only worked there for 4 years. They’re having an interesting conversation in 10 years time.

Without knowing their whole life story its hard to know, can be a whole host of reasons. I'm in this boat (but don't discuss it with people on WhatsApp groups etc) trying to pursue various failed self employment things one after the othrler, due to a disability im basically unemployable so this feels like my best chance at success. Maybe theyve been out of employment too long and are struggling to get back in, maybe they have childcare issues who knows.

The sound thick as bricks

My ILs are like this. Always going on and on about how it's better to work for yourself (they are not well off so it hasn't worked out for them obviously). The other week MiL was telling me I should quit my job and do something different, like a friend of theirs who has started a business serving oysters at parties. FFS. My job is flexible and well paid, so no thanks I won't be quitting at the moment!

I'm self employed and wouldn't go back to employment now. I'm not completely unemployable but find employment really hard. I've never held a job for more than 3 years without feeling the need to move on.

I am on the pathway for diagnosis for ADHD and ASD.
I find the rigidity of employment too much. If I am overwhelmed or unwell then I take a break. Or manage my schedule in a way that works for me. I'm a chronic insomniac and so manage my day to be as productive as possible.
If I can't do these things when I need to I become ill or have a meltdown.

I know what works for me. And I won't be criticised for it

I don't go on social media much but when I do, I see quite a bit of content selling the dream of being self-employed and making the kind of money that most people couldn't dream of making in employment.

My DH fell into this trap a few years ago- quit a reliable but not especially well-paid position to try and become a personal trainer. He started watching loads of online content by people who were making £££ (or said they were) and offering the 'secret' to their success. He really believed that he was going to get rich doing this if he just worked hard enough and lost a lot of money. That's not to say that some people don't become very successful PTs, but I just don't think there are enough potential clients for everyone who wants to do it to make an amazing living if they just work hard enough. Same for a lot of 'dream-type' self-employed jobs, and there are people who will take people's money with the promise of teaching them how to succeed in over-saturated industries.

I'm not blaming people for this either because so many jobs just don't pay enough to provide even a basic lifestyle, and zero-hours contracts compound the problem. It's not their fault that so much employment pays so poorly that you can't make a decent living no matter how hard you work.

I'm self-employed and aspects of it are brilliant (freedom, no workplace politics) and other aspects are crap. For most people (me included) it isn't realistic to start a business from scratch and expect it to pull in a full-time income. I'm a writer and started out in the evenings with a full-time employed position, I think it took about 3 years before I could replace my income.

Perhaps for Mental and physical health reasons?

My dad doesn't buy and sell but hell go around and do odd jobs and gardening, putting up shelves, hanging wallpaper, mow the lawn, weed and cut bushes back for the older people on his road and pop in for a cuppa to keep them company afterwards etc and they will give him a tenner or so. Not enough to be employed at all and my mum' keeps' him financially. Physically and mentally he has good days and bad days he would not cope in mainstream employment. He doesn't have the skills anymore either, it's a long time since you could walk into a job with no qualifications.

They want to be rich and they don't want to have to go to work every day. They have no talents or skills so just hope they'll manage it.

Sorry but most people that are employed don’t come across these things.

#1 can be annoying but it’s also perfectly acceptable. I work in public sector so everything is audited to protect service users. You have to have a reasonable basis for doing things. Therefore I don’t care if someone asks why I did X, as I can send them over the guidance showing that I was supposed to do X. I don’t take it as a personal insult to my character.

It’s more common than you think. I worked for universal credit which is a benefit for people searching for work - there were so many claimants that had no health concerns/caring duties etc, but wanted to be self employed with one of these businesses vs seeking full time employment.

So they’d get booked in to see the self employment team to verify their self employment and would be shocked when they were told their business needs to be considered gainfully self employed (ie the profit is equivalent to a full time job on minimum wage). They can be found gainful as long as their business has the potential for this in the future, so the threshold is low.

They would get offended when the minimum income floor was imposed as they expected UC just to sustain their failing business. They would refuse to search for employment nor attend the job centre, whilst putting in no productive action into their “business” as they would declare either losses, or very low income, every month.