Pre school violence

[BeatrixPottery]

W. ould'm trying to gauge whether it's just my DC's pre school. Whether it's them, athough I've seen it directed at others or whether this is just normal.

A large cohort of their peers just don't seem able to play nicely (settings include play dates, park after school, birthday parties).

These are 3/4 4/5 yo, there's a few where it's just constant meaness/nastiness, always have to be leaving one person out, constant teasing, snatching of things tormenting others etc. To the point where this forms the bulk of their interactions, my DC is pretty good at ignoring this but it's fucking painful to watch as I can be just constant.

And the violence. I'm not talking about the General preschool tussling/snatching/shoving which goes on, I'm talking about real intentional sophisticated violence, I've seen one child repeatedly in anger and nastiness hit my child in the face with a stick, my DC had done nothing wrong they were just trying to play and join in and this group were doing as above running away and leaving out, they went up again and this child picked up the stick and began repeatedly whacking DC in the face. Last week after someone bumped into the same child he went for them and and sort pushed them to the ground and started repeatedly slapping at the other child with both hands. Dad nowhere to be seen I had to step in and say no. Apparently there's been other similar things with the same child.

Two children who regularly close fist punch others, my DC was on the receiving end today, all seemed to be playing nicely and DC was just happily playing and they decided DC wasn't welcome any more and they just pushed them over repeatedly close fist punched him in the stomach I mean wtf! Theyre 4! I know there's been complaints previously about this child and I've seen another one in the class repeatedly (as in indifferent occasions) doing the same thing to a couple of them. I mean what the hell. DC sort of scrambled away and went and did something else. Before I had to step in. Parents are never anywhere to be seen!!!!

I can say hand on heart DC would never doing anything like that presently, also my only other point of reference is my NCT friends kids and I can't even imagine them doing anything like that either it seems to be just this particular cohort.

I looked it up and this list came up

Previous aggressive or violent behavior
Being the victim of physical abuse and/or sexual abuse
Exposure to violence in the home and/or community
Being the victim of bullying
Genetic (family heredity) factors
Exposure to violence in media (TV, movies, etc.)
Use of drugs and/or alcohol
Presence of firearms in home
Combination of stressful family socioeconomic factors (poverty, severe deprivation, marital breakup, single parenting, unemployment, loss of support from extended family)
Brain damage from head injury

But as far as I know there's no sen and these kids are all from stable homes with two parents who in most of the cases are nice people.

I'm just so flaming sick of it seeing it.

Bumping

I've seen kids pushing but not punching, hitting with sticks etc! That does seem pretty violent for a child

No way, that does not sound normal at all. Are there problems when they are at the preschool as well? I'd be moving my DC if at all humanly possible.

This is definitely not normal and I would be changing the place he's in.
I would also be worried that seeing others "play" like this would result in my own child thinking that's acceptable and copy that behaviour

"Stable homes with two parents"
🙄

You have literally no clue what goes on behind closed doors. Their behaviour sounds hideous. I would be keeping a much closer eye and removing your child from these situations if the parent(s) of the two parent stable homes will not parent.

@chella2 yes with one of the punchers but the school have denied it. I know there were repeated problems last yr with some old 5/6 yo repeated being physically and emotionally mean to some of the younger ones.

They kind of made it out that it was a problem with that group so whether these have learnt from them, there were a couple with much older brothers last year and that was voiced as a potential problem.

I don’t know. I voiced my concerns and they invited me in for two stay and plays so far this academic year and I haven’t seen anything physical but I have seen the emotional stuff.

I just can’t believe the punching it’s honestly like something from street fighter when you see it.

@Flurbegurb yes and I know that but I’m just grasping for answers….I know there can be problems regardless and I would be thinking well somethings obviously wrong….4 and really 6 children all from the same setting being so emotionally and physically bullying it’s weird isn’t it.

thats why I was like well maybe I’m overreacting and this is normal?!?

Could it be perhaps a socialisation problem because of lockdowns?

I don't think it's a socialisation problem. Our twins are 5½ and neither they nor any of their peers do this. It sounds rather more like a parenting problem.

Boys do tend to play rough and they need strong adults to correct their play. I am going to suggest this is not happening.

Why are you spending more time than is absolutely necessary with these children, i am unsure where this is happening as you are witnessing it and other parents are present. . I would be looking for another setting to attend with my DC .

I'm very confused where you are witnessing this?! I'm a reception class teacher and this is not normal behaviour for young children.

This is such a generalisation and why it's excuses that boys get away with unacceptable behaviour from a young age!

"Boys will be boys" doesn't fly at my school either, that attitude is harmful to everyone including the boys it's applied to.

It sounds like very extreme behaviour and if the parents aren't on board with correcting it then it's unlikely to improve. Small children can sometimes be mildly feral and they can be quite rude to each other while they're learning the social rules, its part of how they learn not to do these things, but what you're describing seems far beyond that.

Honestly? I'd move your DC. You aren't happy with the environment they're in, you aren't happy with how the parents and the school deal with it, and you aren't confident that you're DC is going to be safe. Look into other schools and move him/her.

its so easy to say it’s a generalisation unless it’s your job and you see it say in, day out. Boys and girls are different. I’m aware it’s an unpopular opinion but it doesn’t make it untrue.

This sounds pretty extreme and not normal at all.

My DCs went to nursery school in a very rough area with more than our fair share of violence and social problems.

All the DC at that nursery used "kind words" and "kind hands" because the staff set very clear expectations and worked with the kids on emotional regulation.

At pre school age, its really not beyond the ken of man for adults to keep order. They're only about 3 feet high for God's sake.

It sounds like your pre school is complacent and ineffective and I would be looking elsewhere.

Your son shouldn't have to put up with this. You have the power to move him to a better setting, so please do so. The behaviour you describe doesn't sound normal to me.

This sounds extreme and isn’t my experience of private nursery preschool or Reception class. The only time my DD ever experienced “violence” was being bitten once in the toddler room by another 2 year old.

@Mammyloveswine play dates - however these don’t happen with these people now.

Playground after school - there is a very good playground literally next door and it’s a cut through for parking walking home so there’s a tendency for people to go on way home.

Birthday parties

She's literally a reception teacher but okay...

This isn't normal and may be a sign of violence in the home so may be worth reporting.
One of my friends had a kid who was constantly coming home with bruises - the nursery staff were like "well these things happen! They're only little!" One day she arrived to pick him up and witnessed a boy about twice the size of her son sat on top of him absolutely beating 7 bells out of him. Terrifying

@RudsyFarmer because they're treated differently by parents and apparently teachers! Who say things like boys will be boys

I would be very concerned about this behaviour. If it’s not corrected then the child will understand that it’s ok to hit others.
I would also be concerned that the mean child may have learnt this behaviour from interactions at home.
Some children have very little quality time with parents/siblings and either no correction or constant correction through shouting/smacking. I don’t mean parents who work and are busy, I am not bashing the vast majority of good/good enough/great parents but those who NEVER praise their kids or give them attention.
I have worked with primary children with challenging behaviour and violence was often a first reaction for a number of these children. It is not normal behaviour and we put in firm boundaries to deal with this.
Children need to learn to socialise with some freedom but some children need a lot of adult input and supervision.
I’ve rambled on but the behaviours of the ‘mean’ children suggest they feel insecure and need loving boundaries in place.
Also, I’d reduce contact as much as possible as your poor dc shouldn’t be being hurt like this.

@RudsyFarmer no this is more than rough play. There was a group of us last Friday and this rough play was going on we had to keep stepping in but there were only two out of 4 parents doing so, and it was gnererally good natured.

However it was clear to me then that what we’ve been seeing is very much over and above ‘rough housing’. Distinctly different it’s really uncomfortable to watch, likewise the nastiness/emotional bullying so sophisticated I can’t quite believe it’s 3/4yo doing it.

I do want to point out that one of the worst offenders from the older cohort last year was a girl. Very violent. Pushing/hitting and lots of nipping/wrist burn type action!