To think people don't realise how much racism is directed towards Eastern Europeans ?

[rudolphrainbownose]

My boyfriend is Latvian, I am English. I've never really mixed much with the eastern european community until we started dating two years ago, so naively assumed racism wouldn't be so much of an issue.
However, my boyfriend works security at a railway station. He is often allocated to a very small station in town, and so is normally the only employee/ worker present. Due to this, his employer provides him and all staff with body worn cameras so there is audio/ visual proof of the following. Whenever people start behaving in an antisocial way at the station, ( e.g. kids trespassing on the tracks, smoking/ drinking alcohol, attempting to board trains without tickets etc), he will challenge this as part of his job. Obviously, as soon as he starts speaking/ engaging with these people, it is clear he has a strong eastern European accent. Without fail, they will normally retort, "well f back home/ back to Poland", ( he is not Polish, has never even been to Poland, but it is always "go back to Poland," ), that is the insult. Yesterday evening he tried to stop a man from stealing a passenger's bike, ( they have bike lock/ sheds there) . The man became enraged and started yelling , "just here for our benefits, go back to Poland!" ( despite the fact my boyfriend was in work uniform and obviously working). When my DP pointed out he was working and so not a benefit claimant anyway, the guy became very aggressive, shouted , "just f off back home and pushed my partner over." I'm genuinely shocked. Whilst physical violence like last night is rare, the "go back to Poland!" comments seem to happen at least once a month or so, just for doing his job and asking people not to steal/ smoke / drink/ tresspass etc at the station.

It's got to the stage that he insisted our daughter , ( two months old), had my surname when we registered her, as he didn't want her to receive abuse for having an eastern european name. AIBU to feel we don't actually recognise this group receive a lot of abuse ? To be perfectly honest, I was not aware of the extent of it until I met my partner.

On the other hand, it may just be that working security , ( and therefore "annoying," people by asking them to stop antisocial behaviour so they retaliate), means he is unfortunately much more prone to abuse than someone working in a shop/ factory / office etc

Broaden your research.

Don’t you mean 1822? 😂😂

English and Polish are different nationalities, ethnicities and races.

It is absolutely is racism. There was quite a big discussion around this issue when Whoopi Goldberg said the Holocaust was ‘white on white violence’ rather than, as she acknowledged in her apology, “the Holocaust was about the Nazi’s systematic annihilation of the Jewish people – who they deemed to be an inferior race”

This Kenyan Malik piece on it is well worth reading. amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/06/whoopi-goldberg-holocaust-remarks-were-born-of-ignorance-not-racism
‘Goldberg’s comments illuminate not just the contemporary view of Jews but also the amnesia that exists about the historical use of racial categories. Race has never been simply about black and white. It’s a concept that has been used to deem certain people biologically incapable or unworthy of being equal. Over the past 200 years, not just black or Jewish people, but Irish, Slavs, even the working class have, at various times, been viewed as racially distinct and inferior.’

I think she might be American - or using American sources.

After all what is ‘Asian’? Because Indian and Chinese people are not the same. And pray tell how would you describe the race of Jordanians? Or Egyptians? Or Mongolians? What are their ‘race categories’? Or does it just expose how limiting and unrealistic ‘race categories’ actually are.

Gosh a lot of discussion as to what these foul comments actually mean racism or whatever, he’s being told to go home ffs, implying that this is not his home on the basis of him not being Anglo Saxon. It’s really sad. If I were him I would be looking for a more suitable role where he would not run into the general yobs that hang out at the station. That’s a must. Get away from dickheads. And chin up, seriously he has as much right to live here as all of us. Even the dickheads know it. Don’t allow the loophole of him being white to count as anything else but racism. It’s foul behaviour, but all I can say wankers exist in abundance in all corners of the world and we have a fair share on display tormenting your innocent hubby. And honestly knowing EE people seriously their families are just beautiful, close knit, they have lovely nature, great standard of education, it’s their right to choose where they want to live, the UK is not all that glorious and has a parsnip up it’s arse in believing that the standards here are just so much better. Nope. The standards fail its poor just as much as elsewhere. We can all be better citizens.

Argh *Kenan

worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/caucasian-countries

It's not racism it's xenophobic. Try being black or Asian in eastern Europe.

Possibly, it’s all very Victorian age per social Darwinism definitions of race. Quite antiquated. I’m not sure she even realises that the “Caucasian” category excluded Scandinavians and Russians but included North Africans(especially the Egyptians) and the Middle East.

But Chinese people aren't the same race as Pakistanis even if they both fall under the 'Asian' banner.

Surely you recognise this?

My df came to this country in 1956 and had xenophobia directed at him. His approach was to tell them to fuck off. He also got himself a British passport as quickly as he could and declared himself as British asap. The queen was my honorary granny and he was now an Englishman.
My df was in the mindset of ‘if you’re going to move to another country to change your life, you need to fit in and just get on with it’.

It’s both racism and xenophobia.

Yes, the ‘not you’ comment is definitely just because you happen to be standing in front of them at the time.

I’m in my early sixties and the daughter of a displaced Pole who couldn’t return home after the war because all - and I mean all - his family had died in the war and the then Communist government were shooting all those who had served in the Free Polish Army that fought alongside British, American and other Allied forces. Go home, get shot. He knew several friends who received this treatment.

After the war, at the age of 19 and demobbed here, he was told to fuck off and go home, the war’s over now. We need the work, don’t need you taking our jobs. He never once complained or told we his children about this, my mum told me this as an adult. He always described himself as a guest in this country, even though he lived here for 68 years and was always treated as an outsider. He worked in the mines and yes, then on building sites before training as an engineer.

I was brought up in London, now living in the Home Counties, and I have lost count of the times I have been asked where I’m really from* because my surname has an identifiably Slavic spelling. And yes, it is Slavic, to those who doubt it. I usually counter by saying that I’m from London but when that question is asked persistently and repeatedly, I know how the conversation is going to end. Maybe with just an eye roll, or maybe by being told to fuck off and go home. Both whilst working in highly professional roles and in every day life. Nothing much changes as you can see.

It’s also true that Poles are the butt of ‘jokes’ in Germany and the USA in a similar way that the Irish have sometimes been spoken about in mainland UK, which is of course equally repellent. You know the trope - a bit thick, funny accent, only suitable for lowly manual labour.

Yes there is ingrained racism against Eastern Europeans and it’s been present for a very long time, bubbling away under the surface. As someone said upthread, what’s changed is that Brexit has given the haters permission to vocalise and express that hate and apparently that’s OK.

*Disclaimer: this is not a race to the bottom or a game of top trumps to argue about who is the most badly treated sector of society that is discriminated against. All I’m saying that there’s a lot of shitty racist/xenophobic/little englander behaviour directed at various sectors of society and it’s never, ever acceptable, irrespective of race, ethnicity or skin colour.

Definitions for Racial and Ethnic Categories

American Indian or Alaska Native. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America), and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment.

Asian. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.

Black or African American. A person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa. Terms such as "Haitian" or "Negro" can be used in addition to "Black or African American."

Hispanic or Latino. A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race. The term, "Spanish origin," can be used in addition to "Hispanic or Latino."

Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands.

White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.

That’s not what this thread is about. Stop the whataboutry

I'm not an academic and don't make the rules. You can easily find the data so is is not really worth debating just because you don't 'think' different ethnicities don't make sense to you.

So you are trying to argue that Japanese and Pakistani people are the same race. 🤦‍♀️

Either way its irrelevant as the official definition of racism covers both nationality and ethnic origin in addition to race.

I'm not arguing with the categories that academics have created. You are.

Yep, the American definitions of race which are inherently contradictory. Hispanic for example includes all the other races but speak Spanish as their mother tongue instead of English.

Also, explains the complete oblivion that the rest of the world doesn’t use the same definitions or categories…..

@Lunar270 this seems to be from the Ladybird book of outdated stereotypes. No academic came up with this in the last 50 years. I suggest you look up the definition in the 2010 Equality Act, it's the only definition relevant to this discussion.

You mean the categories American census writers in the US Gov have created.
They arent academics. And the US is not the world authority on race.

So you do believe that Pakistanis and Japanese people are the same race?

That’s hilarious - you’ve literally just proved my point.

Try being a woman! Honestly, sit down and consider that all discrimination is unacceptable. Not one type is worse. You honestly sound like a child.