To ask whether I can be sacked for this?

[JustHopingForAnAnswer]

I have name-changed for obvious reasons. Anyone know whether staff can be sacked for being in contact with past colleagues?

In order not to drip feed, quick details (necessarily vague) I work in the UK (England) in an industry which seems to have a high turnover of staff at every level. Recently several people have been removed, all a bit of a blow up. I have remained in contact with one of the leavers but learned today that anyone in contact with these past employees is in danger of being "immediately sacked". Surely not a sacking offence?

We have no HR, that's outsourced to just a payroll company, so no-one to ask. But AIBU to think a company can't sack someone for contact with a former employee?

If you intend to do this then you need to make them aware of your 'mental health problem' now and go on record as it having a significant impact on your life, and is therefore a disability, which is the PC, not mental health per se. You need to show you had declared it, as it would be very tough to prove they've discriminated against you on the grounds of a PC they are unaware of.
Plus they can still sack you. It would just mean you could go to ET to try for compensation. You may not win and you'd still be out of a job.

Except op hasn't worked there 2 years so can't bring a constructive dismissal claim.

Actually, it's "balance of probabilities" same as in pretty much every civil setting. And it's free to go to tribunal, as an employee, in most cases. Also in most cases you won't end up having to pay for the other side's costs, even if you lose. The employer, on the other hand, will have to pay £1000s to be represented. Or they can do it themselves, in which case they'll likely screw it up. It'll also take them hours to sort out all of the paperwork they have to do.

As for perjury, well, yes, if you get as far as court, it could be seen that way. But then, most of these cases never make it to an actual hearing. In any case, don't we all rely on all of our friends for support, in a mental health context? I know I do...

They don't have to give a reason if you have less than 2 years' service.

Well, I wouldn't make stuff up, no point. However, it does seem they'd be able to make stuff up to remove me, since I don't have the length of service that affords much protection.
Helpful to have all your comments though, it gives me some perspective. Many thanks.

Hmm. Kind of. When it involves discrimination, it's a bit more complicated. I just found this (no idea about the source, but it's what I've heard before). As always, I'd suggest taking advice before placing reliance.

landaulaw.co.uk/constructive-dismissal/

"Firstly, and most importantly, you must have been continuously employed with the same employer for a period of 2 years in order to bring a claim. This is unless your case falls within one of the few exceptions where no minimum service is required, for example, where it relates to discrimination."

No, they wouldn't be able to make stuff up, but the point is, they wouldn't need to. They could just tell you straight that they're dismissing you for contact with former colleagues.
If you had 2 years service, you could build a case to show this was potentially unfair (you'd never been told, there are no written policies etc) but as you don't have the 2 years there is nowhere for you to present your case.
So, basically it would be potentially unfair, but you can't challenge it.

Sigh.

You have to prove you meet the definition of a disability and that one of the forms of disability discrimination has occurred, which can entail having to prove the impact on you was adverse compared to a non disabled person. That is very difficult even where the person in question actually is disabled and actually has suffered disability discrimination, unlike the op.

Just saying "oh it was for my mental health" doesn't mean you have a disability in law.

There is no fucking discrimination here! The op is not disabled!

So where did the actual "threat" come from? Workplace gossip or an official source?

YANBU are you in a union? If not join one. Your employer cannot dictate who you are friendly with outside of work.

Again, kind of. The standard of proof can be pretty low. Yes, it helps if you've already told them about it. But it's not essential. Yes, it helps if you can prove it with a statement from a doctor. But again, not essential. Further, the likelihood of the claimant suffering 'genuine' MH problems because of the company's behaviour will be weighed up against the reasonableness of said behaviour. I've seen cases succeed with literally no proof. And I've seen them fail when there is all of the proof. But the (intended) takeaway message is that most (not all) employers are terrified of having to go to a tribunal. The mere threat can often get you the result you want.

You can’t claim for unfair dismissal under 2 years. They don’t need to follow the statutory process and they’d refute that their decision to dismiss is related to a protected characteristic such a sex, race etc.

Just keep any contact with the ex-employees low key.

Two years service as others have said gives you way less protection under employment law. There’s what’s called ‘automatically unfair dismissal’ which covers a list of reasons but not ones that are relevant to what you are describing. Sounds like a god awful place to work though.

I understand. Seems very unfair, but they can. I get it.
If it happened, what would they do about references (which I'd want for a new job).

Apart from being in contact with former employees, I have been a model worker otherwise. I've poured a lot into the job, so much so that after only 8 months I got an award and a promotion. But a sacking wouldn't look very good on my references; if the worst happened, what could I ask for? Anything at all?

Well, that's subjective, isn't it? I know that if I was the employer, I wouldn't be very keen to test it. And anyway, I hope you are aware that disability is just one thing that can be discriminated against. There are plenty of others...

Compensation, for starters. Reinstatement, although that's always a terrible idea. A guarantee that they won't give you a shitty reference is another thing you could ask for.

Agree with the advice on joining a TU though however they tend to have a 90 day cool off period in that if you join because you’re potentially in hot water they won’t necessarily assist you. (I’m work place rep and I tend to just overlook it though…) However, keep in mind as reps we can only do what we can within the employment law we have available to us. Sometimes though you can call their bluff especially if they have no in-house HR… 👀

It is unfair but employment law is designed to give the employer an advantage not the employee. If I was your rep say, and you were genuinely facing dismissal and we were out of options I’d try to broker you a settlement which included references.

You could ask for a reference. They don't have to give one. Unfortunately they hold all the cards here. Do they know about the contact?

And what leverage do you think the OP has to negotiate these things?

The threat of filing a tribunal claim. As I said previously, defending such a claim is expensive, risky and inconvenient. Critically, employers don't usually get their costs back. They'd be daft to pursue this one, however tenuous the claim of discrimination was. The mere suggestion is probably enough to take the claim outside the arena of 'manifestly vexatious' (or whatever technical term they apply to it).

Even if it's an empty threat, it's still probably enough to secure a good reference, if nothing else. Plus, writing a bad reference is a whole other can of worms...

I guess I would just ask for a reference and try to bargain it out. I'm not afraid to say what I think, it's more a question of understanding what's possible or not, your comments are very helpful.

Various staff members know things about others, not sure how it gets around. Too much gossip and fabrication, some true, some not. Too much game-playing in the workplace....I'm mindful that I don't want to talk in too much detail, even on an anonymous site, but all sorts of other grievances being brought within the company currently.

they can sack you for pretty much any reason (as long as it's not discriminatory etc).

Agree get some advice, from your union or a solicitor if you are really concerned. Join a union if you haven't already.

In the meantime, do you and the friend you have kept up with have any of the protected characteristics in common? Because if you do and this is WHY you are friends, then this could become a discrimination case. Or if an activity you do together serves a population that has one of the protected characteristics, at a stretch.

What would happen if one of the let-go prior employees was in the same religious or volunteering organisation, a housemate, a family member etc. - you wouldn't be able to avoid contact anyway. This rule is unworkable really and probably constitutes an unfair contract. But protect yourself as much as you can as employers can be very sneaky.

There is no fucking discrimination here! The op is not disabled!

I may have missed a bit but discrimination covers a heck of a lot more than a. just the medical conditions that lay people consider to be "a disability" and b. just disability.