The Pensions Triple Lock has to go

[Flammkuchen]

When it was introduced, the aim of the Triple Lock was to increase pensions faster than earnings as the state pension was low. The TL has been very successful: pensioners now have a higher standard of living and more disposable income than working families. A pensioner couple each getting the full state pension receive £20k per year, with any private pension income on top.

This is great for them, but it comes with a trade-off. In order to increase pensions by over 10% a year, there is less money to pay nurses, teachers or doctors. Highly skilled public sector workers have low pay and there is a recruitment crisis.

AIBU to think that now that on average pensioners have higher disposable income than those in work, a policy that aims to increase pensioner income by MORE than average earnings - and so keep increasing the income of pensioner households faster than working households - needs to be rethought? Even just linking the state pension to average earnings would be better.

plus private pensions are not as good as they were for many. And look what we ask doctors & nurses, etc to pay for their study/training. No wonder they are going to different countries!

Anonymouseposter · Today 23:00
What are the social tarries for utilities? I haven’t heard of them.

The reduced rate 'social tariffs' for energy/water/phone bills are generally available to those on 'mean tested' benefits, such as pensioners on 'Pension Credit', also non-pensioners on benefits such as 'Universal Credit' etc. Every company sets their own criteria, so its difficult to be specific. The companies don't generally advertise the availability of 'social tariffs' and rely on people being referred to them by debt agencies, Citizens Advice etc..

@jannier I don't see why my taxes should pay for childcare for those choosing to have children when others are freezing and going hungry

Childcare isn't something you're paying to the parents, though. Childcare is an investment with a very strong - though long term - return for the country.

Without childcare, many mothers drop out of the workforce for longer then either never return to their past level of salary (and taxes), or stay out completely. Women who are experiencing domestic abuse and/or become single parents are particularly badly impacted here, as are their childrens' outcomes.

= lower future taxes paid in, higher future benefits paid out.

Without childcare, many children with additional needs or with chaotic home lives end up getting minimal support or oversight in the critical early years, and end up with far worse life outcomes.
= lower future taxes paid out, higher future benefits paid out.

You'll have far fewer people freezing and going hungry if you invest in proper childcare.

Some are
Sone are assuming that the inheritance will cover it
Sone are pissed off with the agist attitudes in society
Some (50% apparently) just don't realise that housing has become a real problem - they see younger people with so much that they can't understand there is a housing problem

@jannier - the ability to change what we do about our circumstances is about all the freedom we have. That's it.

Generationally older people have an idea the state looks after them. If you grew up from the 1980s onwards then you know it's not true. You need your own money and to plan.

I find it laughable people saying they have paid in, some pensioners have been retired for over 30 years!! No way have most paid more in taxes than they take out including healthcare which you use most in retirement age.

I actually totally understand the need for childcare....but I don't see why people earning £200k deserve free childcare whilst the elderly are deemed rolling in it on £10k other than society think they are washed up and useless. How can £200k need support if £10k is ample and your own fault for having so little....why is it not your own fault for having chosen to have children? If I had to say which should get money it would be giving the elderly enough to put their heating on this winter not funding parents who have holidays, new cars and get their nails done.

Some people pay a huge amount into pension plans just do theyCAN retire early & when you thi about it why not? Our DD is doing it right now, she is 37 & will be all done at 54 with s massive pot good luck to her, & all who can afford to look after their money for later on. You ain’t here long so why work all the hours if you don’t have to

@yoyy
Plenty of pensioners have taken out far more than they put in

Plenty of current working age have taken out far more than they will ever put in. And will continue once they reach pension age.

A lot of youngsters will be glad of the S:P if it’s still around as most of the ones I work with are up to their necks in debt because of the want it now syndrome. Paid on Friday & goes out within an hour paying ridiculous buy now pay later companies.

I wish people would realise that lots of us, 70+, are just about managing on the lower rate old state pension. Mine is less than £90 a week based on my NI contributions. I have occupational pensions of around £130 a week, DH gets around £150 old basic pension, that's it. We were fairly low earners, 67 and 64 when we retired.

We are below the income-tax threshold, but have too much income to qualify for PC, but we'd be at least £3k a year better off on the new pension. We wouldn't have been much worse off if I hadn't tried to do the right thing by contributing extra for a pension. We'd be getting at least £650 more Cost of Living payment from the government and qualify for Warm Home discount as well as PC and other benefits. I'm not complaining, there are pensioners, especially single ones, much worse off. Just saying we're far from rich!

We do own our home, it's worth about £180k. Fortunately our DC own far better homes, pay wads of tax, have great pension pots, and expect to retire around 60.

State pensions are a huge amount of the national budget- about 10% of all government expenditure. About 20% of pensioner households are millionaires. We are only prioritizing increases to state pensions because pensioners vote (and tend to vote Tory). They are certainly not most in need.

Also what do you mean “actual responsibility”? The responsibility of a government is to manage the economy including making tough choices. It would be far more responsible to stop giving huge amounts of money to rich pensioners and (for example) means test state pensions. This could raise an enormous amount of money (it’s probably the only change that could.

Oh op you are forgetting age comes to us all- you included. One day when your bones ache and you are facing the discrimination you are dishing out and made to feel guilty for just existing and for living in the home you love- this thread will come back to haunt you.

This is not true as a generation. The boomer generation in particular have benefited from a low pension age but longer life expectancy, high property price growth, generous final salary schemes, etc. they’ve been pretty unique in this in recent times. They have not paid for their state pension - it’s being paid for by current taxpayers.

It’s unlikely that by the time the millennials get to pension age that there will be a state pension. If I were them (I’m not) I would be particularly resentful at paying for a huge benefit for the older generation (many of whom are extremely wealthy) that they won’t get themselves.

This.

This government gives plenty to much less deserving causes than rich pensioners

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/michelle-mone-ppe-lords-petition-28624021

• they love to talk about "tough choices" - translation, we'll make the plebs pay for everything as usual.

There are plenty of Pensioners who aren't by any means rich and the government isn't giving pensioners "huge amounts".
Means testing exists already in the sense that wealthy pensioners pay income tax and all pay VAT and other consumption taxes.
The actual responsibility of government (and one which this government is spectacularly bad at) is to create the conditions for economic prosperity shared amongst the population, not just for tax-dodging corporations and non-doms.
More detailed means testing would be spectacularly expensive so your claims it could "raise an enormous amount of money" are highly dubious at best.

As for claims about pensioner millionaires - as usual, there's a bit more to this than the glib statistic -

fullfact.org/economy/millionaire-pensioners/

This is idiotic. They don’t pay 100% tax and even if they did there would be a cost of collection.

I don’t see that anyone has given the op a reason as to why the wealthiest sector of society should get the highest rise in government paid income. Especially when many already have a very high income and (due to the effect of NI) pay less tax than everyone else.

state pensions cost about the same as the whole education budget. And about 20% go to millionaires.

there are a lot of self interested old people- I wish they would at least be honest about it

Youngsters will be working to death there won't be a state pension once we get there that's the point. Boomers have benefited from relatively low property prices , low retirement age and high life expectancy.

Oh and I forgot the final salary schemes.

What do you expect us to do? DH gets his state pension this year- due to having lots of part time jobs I don't qualify for the full pension.
Perhaps we should just die - what do you think? Here we are , using all these resources and too old to work.

Perhaps you would be happy with state enforced euthanasia - until it is your turn.

Boomers have benefited from relatively low property prices , low retirement age and high life expectancy.

Boomers also suffered high unemployment and high interest rates.

Pensioners aren't the wealthiest sector of society.
You could ask why CEOs of the FTSE got an average rise of 23% last year - how is that fair?
The state pension has risen in accordance with a well publicised formula that's been in place for 12 years - it's a larger percentage this year than in any previous one due to inflation being high this year - but 10% of a low figure is still a low figure.
I am still working and paying Tax and NI and don't begrudge the pensioners a penny.
The question we should be asking is why is government and business paying habitually shit wages (unless you are a CEO of course)?
But it's easier to bash pensioners and spread unfounded hatred of old people.

What “less deserving” causes than rich pensioners? The state pension is about £100 billion a year! That’s an enormous amount of money.

paying tax on state pensions (much lower tax than working age people as no NI) is not means testing! Don’t be ridiculous. Do you know what means testing means?

pretty much every other benefit is means tested. It’s complete rubbish that it would cost more than it would save. £100bn is a huge amount of money, means testing would cost less than 1%.

as for “non doms” or “tax dodging corporations” what are you talking about? I used to work in tax compliance and corporations are already extensively taxed. Even then the total corporation tax raised in the uK is about 50bn a year. So less than half of the cost of the state pension from ALL corporation tax paid by companies paying tax in the uK.

maw for non doms - There are very few non doms and it’s unlikely any significant tax could raised by taxing them the same as uK domiciled individuals. I’m not opposed to that but it won’t raise any money and we desperately need more revenue.

the government has a responsibility to stop paying so much to those who don’t need it. But as pensioners vote for them, and the current batch are incredibly entitled it unfortunately won’t happen. Instead health and education will be cut further and working age people taxed more.

I see that the using of pensioners as emotional blackmail to get others to obey Covid restrictions is well over and its back to bashing them.

this is a pretty silly argument. There are very few ceos of ftse 100 companies. The increase in the wages of an elite few hundred employees in a country of 60 million is irrelevant to the level of a universal state benefit paid from taxes to all pensioners.

one reason wages are low is because many companies are having to fund db pension schemes for ex employees (in the private sector these are almost always closed to current employees). The demographic cost of the boomers has led to many cuts to existing services due to costs of pensions eg in police and fire services. we could certainly afford higher wages in the public sector if we means tested state pensions.

noone is “bashing” pensioners. But inter generational fairness means that the wealthy elderly cannot just help themselves to what they want and shout discrimination if anyone disagrees. It’s deeply unfair yo plunder society in that way.