The Pensions Triple Lock has to go

[Flammkuchen]

When it was introduced, the aim of the Triple Lock was to increase pensions faster than earnings as the state pension was low. The TL has been very successful: pensioners now have a higher standard of living and more disposable income than working families. A pensioner couple each getting the full state pension receive £20k per year, with any private pension income on top.

This is great for them, but it comes with a trade-off. In order to increase pensions by over 10% a year, there is less money to pay nurses, teachers or doctors. Highly skilled public sector workers have low pay and there is a recruitment crisis.

AIBU to think that now that on average pensioners have higher disposable income than those in work, a policy that aims to increase pensioner income by MORE than average earnings - and so keep increasing the income of pensioner households faster than working households - needs to be rethought? Even just linking the state pension to average earnings would be better.

Is it? are there actual figures that demonstrate this? have the govt said 'well, we gave the pensioners a rise, so nurses, tough titties, go mug a granny'? (or words to that effect, not the last bit, obvs).

You're an economist. YOu have the actual hard figures to show this, don't you.

@Flammkuchen why are you, a trained economist, ignoring the possibility of increasing taxation, including various forms if taxation on wealthy pensioners? A bigger pie means more for everyone.

Hell, just closing tax loopholes would be a start

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain - I don't think it's a successful life, no. It's a limited one. I am realistic.

If I agreed with the argument on the basic pension here, my assumption would defy what has happened since it was introduced, which is that it has always been low level, covering the very barest of needs. With that knowledge, I would be a stupid woman not to provide otherwise for myself while I am still able.

Short of disability or illness, arriving at 68 to claim a state pension and renting is a failure. Where will be the good things of retirement? I know women who think nothing of renting and being on benefits but this to me is vulnerable. You may think it okay, but success to me is happy children, a warm house and freedom. None of that I'd say if you don't own and expect the Government to help.

Well said. There are a lot of poor pensioners. I know a few. We used to have older people dying in their homes in winter because they couldn’t afford to put the heating on or boil the kettle for a hot drink. It’s not a myth and will probably happen this winter due to fuel costs.

@Kabalagala If the party that says that wants to be out of power for decades, then yes. I mean, it's bound to be popular with a lot of people as long as it applies to other people - until they day they realise shit, that might mean me.

If she’s never worked, she won’t be in receipt of a pension. Unless she’s disabled, neither will she be in receipt of £2.5K a month in benefits.

@FuckMyLife2022 I don’t think so,this has to be a downright lie.

It won't be imminent. It will be once the numbers of boomers starts to decline. So right as I'm heading for retirement age. I fully expect not to have a state pension.
The country will be broke after boomer pensions combined with covid and brexit.

The topic is the state pension. You are using disability benefits to try to over-egg your argument. Most pensioners do not have disabilities and live on their pensions. That is a pretty disgusting reach. If you’re are lucky, you’ll be living on a pension one day. Be careful what you wish for.

@Flammkuchen

In order to increase pensions by over 10% a year, there is less money to pay nurses, teachers or doctors. Highly skilled public sector workers have low pay and there is a recruitment crisis.

The logical flaw in your argument is to accept that there must be a trade off between pensioners and public sector workers.

My vote would go toward funding both, to protect pensioners and resolve the recruitment crisis in healthcare, transport and other public sector services.

I'd fund it by reducing tax breaks for non-domiciled residents and off shore trust funds.

Why would anyone be against raiding those taxes?

You are of course aware that when the original state pension was brought in , the age from which it could be paid was carefully and deliberately calculated. Young enough to squeeze the most out of manual workers working lives, but old enough so that the chance of most people claiming it for more than a few years was minimal. And that worked out fine, most people worked until 60 or 65 then obligingly died soon afterwards. Meaning that the governments of the day happily balanced the books in their favour. Nowadays they are desperately rejigging the pension bank balance. Your grandparents have benefitted from improved life expectancy and healthcare and have stuck two fingers up at the Government Actuaries who reckoned they would be dead as dodos by now. Not their fault, and most people would be happy to still have grandparents still enjoying their life.

(I have to say that if you were my grandchild and I was aware of your snippy attitude I would be very tempted to re write my will in favour of the Cats Home or The Lifeboats. This especially applies to your other grandparent, the rich millionaire one)

Looking at some stats for UK

Children had to pass the 11+ exam

1948 Women first awarded degree at Cambridge

1950 Only 3.4% went to university

1960 there were only 24 universities

End 1960 there were 45 universities

So I agree that not many pensioners will be graduates
Even fewer will be female graduates

It won't be imminent. It will be once the numbers of boomers starts to decline. So right as I'm heading for retirement age. I fully expect not to have a state pension

Better start saving for health insurance and DGCs school fees as well, because withdrawing entitlement to SP because 'we thing you have too much' puts a landmine under the whole concept of the welfare state.

The country will be broke after boomer pensions combined with covid and brexit

Is there anything that ISN'T boomers fault? Ukraine, maybe? oh no wait, Putin's a boomer.

Just what the government wants, young people pitted against the elderly, divide and conquer. No joining together to try to make this miserable apology and the ones who preceded them actually do something sensible. God, they must be laughing their socks off at us plebs.

Where was I blaming boomers?

You said the country will be broke after boomer pensions, covid and brexit. All of which have been blamed on here on boomers, even if not specifically by you. Pensions and Brexit self-explanatory, covid because old people were being protected at the expense, as many saw it, of younger generations. Remember 'Don't kill granny'?

I don't know what other people have said, but I certainly wasn't "blaming boomers". It's still a statistical fact that they are a massive demographic and their pensions are going to be horrendously expensive, and IMO unsustainable.
Personally I blame conservative voters, many of whom happen to be pensioners....

@Flammkuchen
But the point of the Triple Lock is to ensure it increases faster than wages over time, so that pensioners get increasingly better off then those in work.

The point of the triple lock is to ensure the state pension does not lose value in real terms. It has nothing to do with its value relative to wages. If you understood how it worked you might be able to formulate some more sound and intelligent opinions?

Yes but those that currently getting up to £2500 a month could live another 20 years.

Sssh, Flamm's an economist.

I don't know how people manage to live on the state pension, particularly with the cost of heating, increases in council tax etc. It's the lowest pension in Europe.

Many pensioners are claiming disability benefits. I am not saying they shouldn't be getting them, I am saying that the amounts that many are getting are unsustainable in the longer term unless there are more people paying taxes. And as the number of pensioners increases and people live longer of course there is a lot more chance of them developing disabilities .Someone asked how it was possible for a pensioner to get £2500 a month like their family member did so I explained how it was possible and actually happens a lot more than you think.

😆
In the same way as I'm a rocket scientist no doubt!

The government certainly can means test something you have paid for and are entitled to , they did it with contribution based ESA. A majority in parliament and tries did it enabled by libs

I'm quite well off, but only because I worked and paid into the local government scheme, and did a very stressful job where customers bollocked me on a daily basis because of government policies, and I have a surviving spouses pension, because my DH died this year. I'm sorry that young people are unhappy but blaming the rubbish situation on me is not on.