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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not buy my 16yr sister Xmas presents

49 replies

PawsAndReflection · 02/12/2022 23:51

I (30F) am the eldest of 6 siblings and despite us being all over the country all have a great relationship with each other. The youngest (17F) and I especially, my Mom had a very traumatic life and has issues with alcohol and relationships which meant that growing up I had a lot of responsibility for my younger siblings. She is a single mother and had her own business which meant I would finish school, come home and feed/bath/put to bed the two youngest and help the others with homework, housework etc.

I moved out at 18 but have always been there for the younger ones as my Mom went through a string of abusive relationships, the last one she is currently divorcing after he kicked the shit out of her in front of my two youngest siblings. It was the final straw after 3 years of physical, mental and financial abuse from him, not all just directed at my Mom.

I love my Mom and try to support her as much as I feel is appropriate, speaking to schools when the youngest gets in trouble, contributing to her mortgage and just giving all of them advice and someone to talk to when they need it. They’re not overly generous with recognising it but that’s not why I do it, however in this situation it’s kind of important.

I moved to a big city about 5 years ago and live with my partner (35M) who loves all my family and treats them as though they’re his own sisters. We’ve made sure they know they can come and stay with us whenever they need some space, or just to treat them to the kind of culture they don’t get back home. We want to show them that by working hard at school they can gain freedom to live, work and explore wherever they like.

Now here’s the problem. My youngest sister ‘Daisy’ has visited a lot, and usually for at least a week at a time. I work from home 3 days a week so typically she’ll just chill out watching tv or playing online then we’ll do things in the evening, and I’ll take a day or two off to sightsee or go shopping. She is a little nervous about travelling around on her own so this time we suggested she bring a friend with her so they could use the train/bus to properly explore the City.

From the first day she was a nightmare. She was upset we didn’t meet her at the station (a 10 min walk from our house) to carry her bags. Then she stayed up until 6am vaping in the living room, falling asleep with all the windows open and leaving the house freezing, after I’d asked her to only vape in her room if not outside. Her and her friend spent the whole week sleeping until 5pm, ordering fast food and then staying up until 6/7am and playing YouTube loudly in the room next to where we were sleeping.

I didn’t lose my temper, I just spoke to her and reiterated the house rules pointing out it wasn’t fair for them to do this (while leaving shit everywhere) particularly as me and my partner were working during the day. I had given them cash on the condition they use it to explore the city, they spent it on vapes and McDonald’s.

On the Friday, I woke them up nicely at 11am and said if they wanted us to take them out that night and weekend then they needed to go out rather than spending another day in bed. They left at 5.30, went to one shop and started calling us to meet them because they were hungry. At this point, I had met a friend for a quick drink and thought that leaving them another hour rather than racing to meet them would force them into doing a bit of exploring.

By the time we met them at 7pm, they were both clearly sulking, the whole dinner they sat whispering behind their hands, making snide comments and completely ignoring us. My friends sister then made up that her Grandad had died and so unfortunately they had to get the train back tomorrow to make the funeral on Sunday.

Honestly I was relieved- it had been so stressful having them I didn’t even really care that they were lying. But when they said they’d be getting the 4pm train the next day I put my foot down and said they needed to be out by 10am, I didn’t want to waste my whole Saturday feeling awkward with them in the house.

When we got home, I tried to address all of this with her. My main issue was we’ve always had such a good relationship, I would have been fine if she’d said ‘I think we’re going to go home early as it all just feels a bit awkward’ rather lying to my face- again. She immediately started to blame me and my partner for not making them welcome and for leaving them on their own while we had a drink with a friend. She completely lied to my face about a number of things, including how my
partner had treated her (I’ve never seen him raise his voice and he’d spent the week cooking and tidying up after them without a peep), so I ended the conversation and went back to our room without losing my temper.

So 8am the next day (when my sister assumed I’d be asleep) she messaged me from the other room saying ‘we’ve booked our ticket, if you’d like to try and make up come and speak to me but I don’t want this to turn into a blame game’. I think it was so she could say ‘look! I messaged her and she didn’t even come down to say goodbye’. She then attempted to sneak out of the house without saying anything, but I called her back, said I’m sorry this didn’t pan out how we wanted and to let me know she got back safe.

Since then there’s been radio silence, not even a happy birthday for me last week until a text this morning saying ‘shall we call a truce?’. I’m sure the only reason for this is Xmas is coming up and we usually splash out more than anyone for the two youngest, as my Mom is struggling with money and their dad isn’t around.

I don’t want this to turn into a huge drama, which she’s good at, and I don’t want it to carry on into Xmas but unless she apologises I feel like it sets a terrible standard for me to buy her a ton of presents and act as if everything is normal. I’m either a bitch or a pushover and I just don’t know what to do.

Thoughts?

OP posts:
Globetrotterwitch · 03/12/2022 00:03

This reply has been deleted

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Saracen · 03/12/2022 00:06

I expect you love her a lot and you know she is being an unreasonable teen. Her behaviour is unacceptable and that has consequences. It was really hurtful that she didn't acknowledge your birthday. But I imagine you are nowhere near cutting contact with her?

If I were you I would just buy her a little token present. That keeps the door open for her to pull her socks up and be nicer. The absence of any presents at all would feel a bit like you'd be disowning her and might cause a huge bust-up.

PingPongMerrilyWithPie · 03/12/2022 00:08

It is such a tough gig being a proxy parent.

I think you get her something but maybe not as overboard as usual, which is perhaps natural as she is getting older. Not giving her a present would just drive the drama. Then separately decide how you want to engage after Christmas.

It's not a good look to hold presents to ransom over a child (just about!)'s behaviour. I don't think you'd be a pushover for getting her a present.

MilkshakesBringAllTheCoosToTheYard · 03/12/2022 00:12

She is teen-ing as hard as she possibly can, with a side-order of showing off to her mate. Horrendous for you I know. Because teens are (or can be) horrendous.

If it helps, it does actually show that she is so very secure in her attachment to you that she can behave like this with you. It doesn't make it easier though.

You absolutely don't need to invite her to stay again for at least a decade. But you should buy her a 'normal' Christmas because Christmas isn't conditional on behaving like a normal human when you're a teen.

PawsAndReflection · 03/12/2022 00:15

This is all amazing advice thank you, and you've hit the nail on the head about holding Xmas presents hostage- think that's why I'm feeling so uncomfortable about it.

I messaged her at lunch to suggest we have a call before we see each other (with the rest of our extended family) so we can sort it out but she's ignored it, despite replying to a group WhatsApp where I asked if there were any cuisines for dinner to avoid for a post theatre dinner next weekend.

Why are teenagers so bloody annoying!!

OP posts:
Orangesatsuma · 03/12/2022 00:15

Just buy her a present. She’s a teenager and has had it difficult by the sounds of things )only skim read).

I’d have read her the riot act and then just got over it. You don’t want to push her away into the arms of this idiot mate even more.

MarianneVos · 03/12/2022 00:16

They're teen-agers! Not sure why you were so determined they needed to do sightseeing rather than just enjoy themselves however they wanted. Tell them to be quiet if they woke you up, but if they wanted to stay up all night and sleep all day let them! They're not always going to have that freedom so should be allowed to make the most of it.

I think maybe you both need to start afresh and not escalate by not giving presents. You are the older one after all, model good behaviour and how to build/maintain relationships.

Rainallnight · 03/12/2022 00:19

You both sound like you’ve had a really tough life, and you didn’t get the parenting you needed and deserved. Your sister is an annoying teenager and will have lots of baggage as a result of her upbringing on top of that.

I don’t know exactly what I’m trying to say but I think I mean you’ve both been through a lot and the present isn’t the issue. Send her one, and give her a telling off another time for her behaviour.

Have either of you ever had counselling about what you went through?

PawsAndReflection · 03/12/2022 00:25

I've been to counselling yes, and have tried to get her to go but she had one bad experience and now won't consider it. I think it's something to broach when she's a bit older.

It's just hard as I'm so worried about her, I'm in London and she's about 250 miles away. Doesn't have a job, doesn't go to college because she doesn't like the teachers telling her what to do, and she doesn't face any consequences at home really. My mum tries to discipline her but they always turn physical with each other and say horrendous things to each other which are difficult to take back.

I love her so much and know she's so capable of doing well, but she just doesn't have anyone to show her the way at home. My mum thinks it's the schools job to educate her but doesn't understand that it's her responsibility as a parent to enforce things like homework, consequences etc. I spoke to my other sister this evening and apparently 'Daisy' is spending the evening making weed brownies (MY MUM PAID FOR THE WEED) despite this week having another meeting at school because they're threatening to expel her for never turning up.

This is just a small part of a much bigger issue I know, but I just want her to at least understand that with me she has to respect our relationship and reciprocate the respect that I always give her.

OP posts:
PawsAndReflection · 03/12/2022 00:27

Sorry, I don't have any other adults that I can talk to (my friends have children but they're babies) that have the actual life experience of dealing with teenagers and it's just so hard.

I feel like I can't win.

OP posts:
PawsAndReflection · 03/12/2022 00:30

MarianneVos · 03/12/2022 00:16

They're teen-agers! Not sure why you were so determined they needed to do sightseeing rather than just enjoy themselves however they wanted. Tell them to be quiet if they woke you up, but if they wanted to stay up all night and sleep all day let them! They're not always going to have that freedom so should be allowed to make the most of it.

I think maybe you both need to start afresh and not escalate by not giving presents. You are the older one after all, model good behaviour and how to build/maintain relationships.

I don't mind the sleeping late at all- it's exactly how I was at my age! But I'm dying for her to find something to spark her imagination, and ambition, so that she finds a focus. She does exactly the same when she's home so I was hoping that out of the 8 days she was staying here, she might spend just one of them that encouraged her to discover something new that might inspire her.

OP posts:
WhereYouLeftIt · 03/12/2022 00:32

Sounds to me like she was 'performing' for her friend. Showing off how much she could push her big sis around. Very juvenile behaviour, but - she is a juvenile.

I'd still be giving her consequences. Not Xmas, although her present wouldn't be as lavish as she would want. No, consequences should be directly connected to the arsey behaviour. She was a PITA visiting you, so I would be curtailing her visits. You say she "has visited a lot, and usually for at least a week at a time." Next time she suggests a visit, the answer would be 'no'. Maybe the time after that too. She abused your hospitality, she must expect hospitality to be withdrawn. Up to you how long you withdraw it for - I'd be expecting an apology before I'd extend it again, personally.

MilkshakesBringAllTheCoosToTheYard · 03/12/2022 00:33

PawsAndReflection · 03/12/2022 00:27

Sorry, I don't have any other adults that I can talk to (my friends have children but they're babies) that have the actual life experience of dealing with teenagers and it's just so hard.

I feel like I can't win.

You can't win! All you can do is keep pouring out the love and hope it all comes right. You don't need to be walked over either mind you and I'd be wary of having the friend to stay again. They seem to be going all out to impress each other and break as many boundaries as they can.

She is so lucky to have you and I think it's worth repeating that she's only being like this because she knows you'll always be there for her.

converseandjeans · 03/12/2022 00:36

She's treating you like a difficult teen treats parents. I think she was showing off to her friend - that you have a nice flat & take her for food etc..

Your Mum needs to focus on her kids instead of going off with men who treat her badly.

It sounds like your sister needs to go to college or get a job.

I think you should still get her a gift but perhaps don't spend as much.

PawsAndReflection · 03/12/2022 00:39

converseandjeans · 03/12/2022 00:36

She's treating you like a difficult teen treats parents. I think she was showing off to her friend - that you have a nice flat & take her for food etc..

Your Mum needs to focus on her kids instead of going off with men who treat her badly.

It sounds like your sister needs to go to college or get a job.

I think you should still get her a gift but perhaps don't spend as much.

Oh I know, but unfortunately I can't do anything about either of them. All I can do is try and demonstrate to my sister why it's important to work hard/stick to something so that you can be financially independent.

This recent incident has really just made me feel like she sees me as a bit of a cash cow and I feel really stupid.

OP posts:
AndEverWhoKnew · 03/12/2022 00:43

Tbh as soon as you suggested inviting a friend, this was the likely outcome. Teens can push each other and your DSIS might have thought you were saying you didn't want to spend time with her.
You're not her parent and it's difficult to transition from proxy parent to equal sibling. You need to think about how you do it or what role you want to fulfil.
It's also unlikely your DSIS is going to find something that sparks interest on her own because of her chaotic childhood and environment. Most people find their passion because someone took the time to support them in having lots of different experiences. Sending her out with a friend wasn't likely to work.

converseandjeans · 03/12/2022 00:49

This recent incident has really just made me feel like she sees me as a bit of a cash cow and I feel really stupid.

Yes she probably does but don't feel stupid. It's interesting when there's a family with a chaotic background that some children can still somehow succeed in life yet the others just flounder.

You probably didn't have anyone helping you out - but she does & has come to rely on it.

Ponderingwindow · 03/12/2022 01:31

Christmas isn’t the time to teach a teenager a lesson. It’s the time for love bombing to show her that no matter how much she tries to push you away, you won’t turn you back on her. That doesn’t mean expensive, meaningful or personal would be better.

you really missed the ideal time which was during the actual visit. Given the situation, it’s ok to assume a quasi-parental role. It’s not ideal, but in situations where the actual parent isn’t doing their job, sometimes it is better if the older sibling steps in. It damages your sibling relationship, but helping to guide your younger sibling is worth the sacrifice.

next trip up, don’t let her bring a friend. It lets her put on a show. Set the rule that there is no vaping in the flat whatsoever. Make the visit shorter so that you can spend most of the time actually engaged with her. Then take her out yourself to some of those places that you think might help spark her to get serious about a different path. Make it clear that if she misbehaves, the trips won’t happen again any time soon.

PawsAndReflection · 03/12/2022 01:31

To complicate matters, her, my Mum and my other sister (19) are coming to visit next weekend. Before this all happened I bought tickets for us all (Grandma and female cousins too) because I thought a lovely girls only show would be a pre-Xmas treat

So I'm worried that to try and approach things before then runs the risk of ruining the whole weekend, which is crazy because she's just a kid! She shouldn't have any kind of impact on something that 8 of us are going to enjoy. But if I don't speak to her then she'll just think things are fine with us.

OP posts:
PawsAndReflection · 03/12/2022 01:33

Ponderingwindow · 03/12/2022 01:31

Christmas isn’t the time to teach a teenager a lesson. It’s the time for love bombing to show her that no matter how much she tries to push you away, you won’t turn you back on her. That doesn’t mean expensive, meaningful or personal would be better.

you really missed the ideal time which was during the actual visit. Given the situation, it’s ok to assume a quasi-parental role. It’s not ideal, but in situations where the actual parent isn’t doing their job, sometimes it is better if the older sibling steps in. It damages your sibling relationship, but helping to guide your younger sibling is worth the sacrifice.

next trip up, don’t let her bring a friend. It lets her put on a show. Set the rule that there is no vaping in the flat whatsoever. Make the visit shorter so that you can spend most of the time actually engaged with her. Then take her out yourself to some of those places that you think might help spark her to get serious about a different path. Make it clear that if she misbehaves, the trips won’t happen again any time soon.

I did address it at the time but she started shouting, and completely derailing the conversation so there didn't seem any point in continuing. My hope was she'd get home, calm down and get in touch but it's not happened.

OP posts:
SirenSays · 03/12/2022 01:42

I'm sorry it hurt that she didn't reach out, but I also think expecting a teenager to be the one to contact you when they're feeling awkward is like asking for disappointment.
Show her that you love her, even when things are rough between you. Be the bigger person, she's only young.

Ownedbyabeagle · 03/12/2022 02:04

Has she behaved like that when she's stayed with you previously?
I just wonder if she's showing off in front of her friend.
You sound like a lovely person, your siblings are very lucky to have you.
I think she might be a bit embarrassed and I think you should let it go this time so you can enjoy your theatre weekend with no atmosphere.
Maybe address it afterwards and let her know how it made you feel. Ultimately she sounds like a typical teenager though.

Jesusmaryjosephandtheweedon · 03/12/2022 04:03

To be fair she sounds like a typical teenager, showing off that her sister has a fab place in London and she can go there any time she wants and do whatever she wants.

When a friend was invited it was never going to be the meaningful trip you wanted it to be, and thats ok. You can't force her to engage or focus etc just encourage her and hope she will listen.

I would speak to her next week when she comes up. Just act normal with her, as she feels you have a truce, and then at the end of the weekend just pull her aside and say what you want to say..."I didnt appreciate x,y, z. Im your sister and I just want you to be honest with me, let's draw a line under it and move on."

And then do draw a line under it and don't speak of it again.

Mummyoflittledragon · 03/12/2022 04:56

I sounds as if none of you had a decent role model. You haven’t said anything about about your 19 yo sister. Is she doing ok? I am just wondering if your youngest sister has got both of you now and she’s not up for taking responsibility for her life any time soon because the 2 of you have got he back. Unfortunately with the type of parenting your dsis has had, she hasn’t learned to move through the stages. You had to be the parent and this equipped you far better for adulthood than the youngest, who did not.

I agree with the consensus that I’d give her a token gift. I’d probably give both sisters the same though and pretty much nothing to your mother. She deserves very little after the way she treated you all and continues to treat your dsis. The tickets you’ve bought can be part of the present. And no way would I be giving your dsis money as she may spend it on drugs.

As for how to address it, I agree with the suggestion to say something at the end of the next visit. Consequences are Daisy is no longer welcome in your home and you won’t be having her to stay until you can guarantee she will behave herself. I’d also let your dsis know you’re there for her when she’s ready to move on from this self destructive stage. This something I’d repeat every so often.

Your dsis has changed her sleep wake cycle by the sound of it, which does tend to happen with people, who have no goals and are drifting. Does she like herself? Value herself?

JustAnotherHappyFatty · 03/12/2022 06:43

I would buy Christmas presents as normal this year and monitor the situation over the next 12 months.
What I absolutely wouldn't do (assuming she visits again over the next year) is allow her to bring a friend! Teenagers are generally not known for seeking out culture together. So any visits to my home would be by herself.