Primary school pushing expensive clubs

[nowaynotnownotever]

I may be BU here so I'll put it to the MN jury and also ask whether I would BU to actually broach the issue with the school.

For background I have 3 kids in a primary school and a baby at home. My kids to LOADS of clubs outside of school. A sport, swimming lessons, rainbows/brownies, a weekend music club and in school instrument tuition for the eldest 2. So I feel they do pretty much well!

My problem is their primary school has started 'offering' music/performance sessions in school. These are £40/kid/month(!!) and last about 15 mins per week term time. They look loads of fun. The group is regularly promoted by the school and the group produces 'concerts' that as in school time for the whole school and we get leaflets home about it at the same time too. Yesterday my children missed maths for this. And now my 5 year old is really sad she's not joining this club too. I really can't afford £120/month for this (because I can't say no to the other 2 then) and feel loathed to do so when other parents whose kids do it do have told me the children don't really learn the instrument they're supposed to be.

I know my children have traditional instrument lessons in school time (so maybe I am being U) but these are not constantly pushed on the children/parents. You get a letter at the start of the year and that's all you hear about it. The summer concert is after school and for parents/families.

AIBU to think this really isn't fair on the children whose parents have to say no and that the school are wrong for creating a 2 tier music/drama education?

Are you part of the school pta or governer or read the school financial report each year. If not get involved because Schools are basically broke! I know If my school was getting a financial incentive for something like this I wouldn’t care one bit of it meant additional funding for the children and young people to attend. Morally is it right? Hell no! But we are in a cost living crisis and austerity crippled school funding.

Parents can choose to say no to these activities.

In regards to the watching of the activity maybe it is too build confidence in the children, encourage others to do an activity not necessarily that one. No different to an assembly type thing.

raise it with the school but tbh you sound quite bitter about this one group when you significantly supplement your childrens education with activities you/them want to do.

also as I was typing Maybe this club offers children that chance whose parents who are unable to navigate clubs outside of school due to childcare/commitments. The ones who can’t do stagecoach or football at the weekend etc. they still get to show off their skills though to their peers.

“My eldest DD was horrified the instructor was shouting which notes should be being played at the children during the performance.”

Horrified? 🤣
Your little primary schooler is getting a head start on pearl clutching, isn’t she?!
”Look mummy - those children are not studying The Rudiments and Theory of Music!” The horrors!!!

You’ve chosen to have 4 children which is what’s made it unaffordable. I don’t see why other children shouldn’t get the opportunity.

Well she's a big primary schooler and yes she's a pearl clutcher 🤣

@amyds2104 I do think it's good If the school get some payment for it but then again is it fair to push expensive clubs on parents through direct marketing to children and pester power when some families are really struggling with the cost of living crisis?

I'd be happy to get involved with school governance but they've got it all wrapped up with a certain group of parents allowed to get involved.

@Fleabigg it's less to do with my choice to have 4 amazing children and more to do with my choice to work part time and therefore be present to parent my children and offer them outside opportunity. Both time and money are limited resources and so we make choices of course.

Really weird and very rude to try to shame me over family size. Do you think people choose to have only one purely on the basis they'll be able to afford to waste money willy nilly?! I think not. Or maybe that was you?

YANBU. I agree OP.

Opt out if you like I don’t think they’ll mind, our clubs are so much in demand you have to book as soon as they go up and the site just glitches out

Why does this bother you so much OP, it’s life that things get advertised and many can’t afford them?

You're taking all the comments about your choice to have four children very personally.

People are pointing out the reality - unless you have quads, or a solo child and triplets, having a big family is a choice that comes with consequences - just as you working part-time is a choice that comes with consequences 🤷🏻‍♀️ It's not a criticism to point that out.

And yes, many families do stop at one or two children for that reason - so they can comfortably afford to spend money on a variety of hobbies and activities without having to limit their children. That's quite a normal way of doing things.

Your choice to have multiple children and work part-time means finances are spread thinly. Other people choose to have one child and work full-time so they don't have to worry about money.

Different strokes for different folks.

@NoelNoNoel because school should be a safe space free from advertising, because school should be inclusive, because it's wrong to sell to 4 year olds.

Interesting @thelobsterquadrille when I was having babies I certainly didn't think that they might go to a school that would pressure sell an expensive club to the children and therefore I should have less babies to be able to pay for this 🤔

If it helps for more context I know one child goes home and cries each time they have a concert, the mum is a teacher and can't afford it for her 2 (Mumsnet approved number of kids). If she was posting about this what would you say - is she less U than me?

Thanks @123woop I think there's little I can do though

But just because you didn't think that way when you were planning your family, doesn't mean other people didn't. Lots of people don't want to spread their time and money between multiple children - others would rather have a big family. It's horses for courses - life would be very dull if we were all the same, after all.

But the reality is always going to be that the more children you have, the more you have to divide your time and money between them. That's just basic maths at the end of the day. If it wasn't this particular club, it would be something else - expensive school trips or residentials to pay for.

As the for the lady with two children - well, of course not everyone is going to be able to afford everything - that's just life. It doesn't change the fact that you choosing to have four children is one of the reasons you're having to say no to your kids.

But that doesn't have to be negative. You obviously love your children and wanted a big family, and they do plenty of activities anyway so there's no need to make a big deal of it.

I do think we are living in a culture nowadays where we struggle to say "no" as parents.

We overindulge (spoil) them as children and it does them absolutely no favours for the future.

I am guilty of this also but have been consciously making an effort to say "no" more. Builds up their resilience and prepares them for the real world. Also means they appreciate the "yes' " more when it happens.

No one is shaming you for having 4 children. The fact is many people do stop at 1 or 2 due to the cost of paying for them to have nice things, do nice activities, or even just boring stuff like food and somewhere to live.
Are you shaming parents who work full time and are not there to "parent their children"?
That's pretty low especially as you started this thread claiming to be worried about less well off children.
Presumably it's your husband's well paid job that puts you in the fortunate position of being able to work part time and have 4 children. Good for you but it doesn't make you morally superior to those who have to work more hours or can afford fewer children.

“Do you think people choose to have only one purely on the basis they'll be able to afford to waste money willy nilly?”

Why would you say that the additional money available from having less children is wasted? Are you wasting money on the instrumental lessons and the others clubs you mentioned??

“If it helps for more context I know one child goes home and cries each time they have a concert, the mum is a teacher and can't afford it for her 2”

Odd not to have included that persuasive little nugget in your OP…

I think you should approach the school. You may be good at saying no, others may not be.

@nowaynotnownotever id be voicing my concerns to the head and the governors.

it’s not on !

I used to wonder the same about a Minecraft club AFTER school. But that was an extra in addition to the computer lessons the did in school, with the same lady.
it’d helped fund her as she stayed to run it. Places were limited and rotated on a termly (ish) basis so all those who wanted to could do it.

is the person teaching bucket bashing a qualified teacher at all? Should they have that many children in their own? Or is there a teacher with them?

id be asking ALL the questions! And if you don’t get sufficient answers, put it formally in writing!

Thanks @Purple52 I'm
Not sure how he can be qualified in such a diverse range of instruments plus singing too? and being paid minimum wage.

It's just him so I guess that's why it's in the school day so other adults are around for safeguarding.

I want to approach the school but want to be careful about it because I don't want the children to miss out on either music (even if I don't think the quality of the teaching is very good) or fun, I just want to let them know a number of the children are being repeatedly upset as a consequence of the hard selling. I've asked how others feel on the class parents group and others have since said they are having similar conversations at home. :(

I agree @Thefourthseason and that's what this business is profiting from, parents inability to say no to their children. It's exploitative at the expense of the childrens emotions.

My children are fine with being told no, they also know they do very well. Having to have the same conversation and manage the same disappointment on repeat is really pee-ing me off now.

Surprised that Rocksteady is still going, and has just expanded into your children's school.

I remember reading lots of criticism of them a few years ago - about their money-grabbing business practices, the way they marketed their services by pushing them on impressionable young children without being upfront with the parents, the fact that they don't use qualified teachers and don't actually teach them very much - not how to play the instruments or how to sing, necessarily, I'm not just talking about not teaching them to read music!

There were complaints about children being disappointed with cancelled sessions/ being told to play one note on a keyboard throughout the entire song, parents feeling ripped off because they weren't getting what was advertised and were paying a lot of money, the kids who were keen having to unlearn bad habits with proper music teachers later, it being near-impossible to get a refund when the sessions were invariably cancelled, groups were over double the promised size, etc etc. And that was before Covid - think it's been worse since.

All that, and a really exploitative work model for the "band leaders" - who are expected to carry all the heavy instruments around from school to school in their own cars, teach multiple groups every morning and afternoon in different locations, and don't get paid well at all - especially considering the amount Rocksteady rake in from everyone.

If you look at Trustpilot and other online review sites there are some shocking stories, and a suspiciously high number of glowing reviews that look like they've been planted there by the company itself.

Here is just one example I found from someone interviewed to work for Rocksteady this year:
"Couldn't answer some questions. Having being recently interviewed by yourselves I was told that all tuition didn't incorporate any music curriculum. So confused by this question relating to your educational values? Genres of music are not to be discussed so I was told. Theory of music is not either. I was told no tab or notation is taught. I was told you teach by rote one song a term? a song directed from a specified list. 13 weeks on one song? A song that isn't chosen by the group?? I was told to not teach any blues scales or improvisation techniques. I was told to not encourage listening or composition skills. I was told to not do any rhythmical warm ups or coordination games. I was told that all these things were 'interesting' but not relevant to the job. I was told to not do any harmony or singing or rhythmical body percussion, beatboxing or song writing. I was head hunted by yourselves because I hold a music degree and a masters in music. But why would a musician and teacher want to do this job? I think You should take some time to think what this activity is actually achieving. You wouldn't allow an art teacher to make kids make exactly the same clay pot and paint it in exactly the same colours. Exactly the same way. Music isn't about copying. It is about being creative and experimental. It is about developing confidence and social skills. Your business is a business. It offers no skills of musicianship. It's basically guitar hero. You say the role of band leader is like being Jack Black from School of Rock. But ultimately that is false advertising. Because he listened to his kids. He appreciated their input. He composed and he didn't dictate. I am pretty much alarmed by what I discovered in interview to be honest. I think the videos on line are evidence that things are not working as well as they should be in our primary schools. I would strongly advise any school inviting this company into their school to check relevent qualifications of the staff, and Google their reputation online. This company proves to be unreliable in its educational standards and has the complete wrong vision and ethos of how music should be taught. Although the web site may state otherwise! The poor kids don't even get to take an instrument home to practice!! A REAL musician will know that practice is essential. This business doesn't consider any child's education or wellbeing. It basically does what any kid could do on a YouTube tutorial. I think that's it from me anyway. I'm just so disgusted that music education has stooped to this level."

wow