Primary school pushing expensive clubs

[nowaynotnownotever]

I may be BU here so I'll put it to the MN jury and also ask whether I would BU to actually broach the issue with the school.

For background I have 3 kids in a primary school and a baby at home. My kids to LOADS of clubs outside of school. A sport, swimming lessons, rainbows/brownies, a weekend music club and in school instrument tuition for the eldest 2. So I feel they do pretty much well!

My problem is their primary school has started 'offering' music/performance sessions in school. These are £40/kid/month(!!) and last about 15 mins per week term time. They look loads of fun. The group is regularly promoted by the school and the group produces 'concerts' that as in school time for the whole school and we get leaflets home about it at the same time too. Yesterday my children missed maths for this. And now my 5 year old is really sad she's not joining this club too. I really can't afford £120/month for this (because I can't say no to the other 2 then) and feel loathed to do so when other parents whose kids do it do have told me the children don't really learn the instrument they're supposed to be.

I know my children have traditional instrument lessons in school time (so maybe I am being U) but these are not constantly pushed on the children/parents. You get a letter at the start of the year and that's all you hear about it. The summer concert is after school and for parents/families.

AIBU to think this really isn't fair on the children whose parents have to say no and that the school are wrong for creating a 2 tier music/drama education?

We're wondering if the school are getting a financial incentive for pushing the club.

They offer other clubs after school, sport, cooking etc and those are not marketed like this very expensive one is at all.

I thought they weren't allowed to charge for activities during the school day, only ask for a "voluntary contribution"?

It seems very wrong to exclude poor children from fun activities during the school day. What they do outside of school is up to parents of course. I am pretty sure they can't exclude people who can't pay from the music lessons either. Pupil premium money is sometimes used for that sort of thing.

It doesn't matter what alternative clubs OP can afford. Presumably there are kids in that school whose parents are really struggling with energy bills and food. So having this activity constantly pushed at them IS wrong. And absolutely unfair that their noses are rubbed in it by having to watch the more fortunate kids performing.

@Testina the tradition music lessons are run by a charitable trust that offer subsidies and free lessons for families that can't afford. They also loan instruments for free. We pay for our lessons because we can but those really are inclusive.

Yes I think so. We are relatively well off, definitely others will be feeling this more :(

My daughter had an assembly session with them and then a free taster and then was given a form - she's year 2 and I said no she already does Rainbows, swimming and dancing - she can't do everything

And it's wrong to push it on the kids. My friend works in a school office and "Rocksteady" pay the school a percentage of the fees

OP, I'm a music teacher who has worked in both primary & secondary schools. I also do some instrumental teaching. I just googled Rocksteady as I haven't encountered them before. They are recruiting for someone around 25 miles away from me. The starting salary they offer is not far above NMW. Currently the lowest amount paid according to the ISM from their latest survey is £30 per hour with a median amount of £36 (£33 in state schools). From your OP, Rocksteady seems to want £10 per kid per lesson for 15 minutes; that's a lot of money for basically unqualified band musicians. Decent musicians know they can earn a lot more elsewhere.

Don't get me wrong; music is such an important part of my life and I want every child to experience it. But companies like these and Normans really annoy me. They get gullible people to sign up, charge them a lot for a very basic service and laugh all the way to the bank. Normans used to flog poor quality instruments at inflated prices because you got "free tuition". Marvellous, except I watched a pianist and singer "teach" the violin. It was appalling. The student had zero technique because the teacher was a singer and pianist, but had "watched a video" or something similar. Then my colleagues and I get the keen students, advise them to get a better instrument and spend the next several months/years undoing the terrible techniques they have acquired.

Your older kids having instrumental lessons sounds perfect. Smaller children (eg 5 year olds) need instruments of the correct size for them. My DDs started on 1/16 and 1/10th sized string instruments at 4 (with proper expert teachers chosen by me). Brass teachers like children to have their front adult teeth through before starting them. Kodaly classes for Reception and KS1 children are fantastic, but as the school is unlikely to benefit, I don't suppose they will be offered.

We're wondering if the school are getting a financial incentive for pushing the club.

Ask school? They should be transparent about it if they’re receiving a fee.

But in general, it’s OK to tell your children that something is too expensive. They definitely won’t be the only ones missing out.

Of course some families won’t be able to afford brownies/ swimming/ dance/ etc...life isn’t fair.
But those clubs are not being pushed by the school. IMO it’s great that the school offers extra clubs (ours has literally none at all). But IMO during the school day they “should” all have equal access to the educational opportunities on offer. So there should be help available to make that happen, and if the school / provider can’t offer subsidies then (a) the school shouldn’t run it during the school day, and (b) they should tell parents it exists but not actively market it.

I work f-t and dc have plenty opportunity for clubs, though mealtimes on some evenings aren’t great. So it’s not the case that mine miss out on everything because I can’t drop them off / pick them up at 4pm.

I'm a bit meh about it really.

They do Rocksteady at DS's school. He gets a leaflet every so often and I see the odd concert put in school newsletters. I did ask him if he wanted to do it first time but he didn't and I can't imagine any of his friends being bothered about it either.

If I hadn't wanted him to do it or couldn't afford it I'd just say no. If there are others who want to and are happy to pay then that's up to them. It's a business...it'll only continue if there's demand for it.

Thank you for this reply @Malbecfan I think you've just confirmed by instinct on the whole thing.

@SpongeBob2022 we have just said no, they do understand they can only do so much and time and money are limited. Having it marketed to very young children repeatedly though is really unfair I think

@OhIdoLike2bBesideTheSeaside disappointing but confirms my suspicions. Surely it's immoral for the school to receive financial incentives from a commercial business.

That’s about right for peripatetic music lessons. In fact it’s quite low

DD plays French horn I pay £35 for a 30 minute lesson once per week.

Surely your kids miss lessons to do their instrument lessons. Do you object to this? Unless they are missing a lesson once a week you are being ridiculous. I assume the children enjoy the concerts? It is just an enjoyable experience. Your kids get plenty. Tell them this and then try not to be petty.

@cansu I object to them missing lessons for other children's clubs when it's a marketing ploy for a commercial business yes

Rocksteady worked in my school for a while and the little concerts the children did were in assembly time. It would be a half hour assembly instead of a twenty minute one, but the children that had to watch usually enjoyed it because they tend to use popular songs.

It’s likely to be a minority of children that do it, and maybe those children don’t have the opportunity to do as many out of school activities as yours do. It’s not like your children are being left out as the majority will be in their position, and you can help then understand how lucky they already are.

How much lesson time are they actually missing? Half an hour a half term? Get over it.

Hi OP,
If its the same one that's peddled in our school, YADNBU.
My daughter is in Year 3 and has been with this "music school" since Reception but last month I sat back and thought about what she actually did and it was stand at a microphone and sing a few lines of a song. No teaching how to breath properly when singing, no warming up, no learning singing quietly/loudly etc and if she was in the first class, she would spend some of the class time setting up! For £40 a month. So yeh, I've cancelled that now. Should have seen what they offered as an alternative over lockdown. Christ.
I guess for kids doing the instruments, it's a bit different but still pricey for that.

We were considering rocksteady for our DC (on bass) as it all seemed like lots of fun (already does private piano lessons outside of school) but when I asked about the sessions and discovered they would be during crucial lesson time (literacy/maths) I just couldn't justify that. The school day is quite short and 30 mins of a core subject every week is significant in my opinion. Aside from that I didn't have a problem with the concept. As PP have said; not everyone has the time for out of school activities.

You can also blame ofsted for these types of things. They want to see lots of different extra curricular activities and clubs. Schools have to buy them in as the teachers aren’t always skilled and work enough hours as it is.

My DD’s school have o lay just employed a music teacher. DD13 never had a single music curriculum lesson when she was at that primary and DD10 is y6 and they’ve just started. The teacher also offers an after school club for 40 minutes and we pay a small amount of £12 for the term. After school clubs have historically been free but this year there is a music club, craft club and sport club and all have the same extra cost. DD13 started instrumental lessons when she joined secondary - their primary has never offered them. I complained for years about their lack of music. DD13’s instrumental lessons are £75 per 10 week term. Sounds a lot but fairly good value. Only 20 minute lessons but they are 1:1. I know privately they could be around £30. The school also subsides these further for any students taking GCSE music as it’s part of the course requirement. All lessons are during the day and usual curriculum lessons are missed for them. But usually rotated so different sessions are missed.

Children who are entitled to free school meals usually get all these extra clubs and lessons offered for free if they want to take them up. My daughters secondary school has an expectation that all students buy a Chromebook when they start in y7. Different payment plans are offered to pay for these and pupil premium get them given. This is the same for school visits and residential. The secondary school offers loads of extra curricular activities in music/sports extra free but secondary teachers are specialists in their subjects so can offer clubs for free.

The kids who do miss out the most are the working poor who don’t get free school meals so aren’t entitled to pupil premium. I’m a single parent working part time on tax credits and the school assumed I’d be getting free school meals - repeatedly sent me the forms- but I’m not entitled as I work. I do know some on UC who work and get free school meals so not sure where the faint line is for claiming. One parent works more hours than I do. At primary my kids only had school dinners in kS1 when they were free as I couldn’t afford £11 each per week for them both. I did pay for one whilst the other was still in kS1. Now I afford 2 days a week for my primary child. My secondary child gets DLA so I use that to buy her meals and pay for her activities but if she didn’t get that for her disability I would struggle to afford.

I don’t like the sound of this company people keep referring to as it doesn’t sound like a usual arrangement for schools. But ofsted are big on offering loads of extr activities, even if they are chargeable.

Well they are not learning to read or write music, they are not learning to play an instrument as far as I can see. My eldest DD was horrified the instructor was shouting which notes should be being played at the children during the performance.

@Howsitgoing how does your DC feel about you cancelling it? I think a lot of parents are coming to realise its not what it's cracked up to be but are now committed!

Just parent your child by telling them no.

If you think they are expensive, poor value, poor tuition, take kids away from core lessons - well, happy days because they are not compulsory.

if you were to complain to school what would that be? Please stop telling my kids about this club because they want to do it and are sad when I say no?

As pp have said, you have no problem with kids watching yours attend clubs that they can't attend.

If school benefit from a % of money paid, then that may be used to fund something that the school wouldn't otherwise have. At our school, it's free music lessons for pp children.

And how often are your children forced to be the audience? You have already exaggerated by saying that lessons are 15 mins when actually they are twice that. Do they perform termly in a slightly extended assembly?

To me you sound like someone who can't bear for your kids to be missing out. If money was no object, they'd be doing it too.

She was fine with it because she hated missing whatever lesson was happening when she was away. I said if she really wants proper singing lessons, we can look it in the future.
The concerts were a nice part but I think a big part of that was missing so many the first school years so we took anything we could get!