Number of graduates in teacher training in England at ‘catastrophic’ level - DfE figures

[sunnydaytoday0]

When is the government going to do something to address this, with more and more leaving and fewer and fewer wanting to enter teaching despite the governments attempts so far at making it "more attractive".

Will there be anyone left in our classrooms? Will parents be thinking of any of these issues and their implications during strikes?

www.theguardian.com/education/2022/dec/01/number-graduates-teacher-training-england-catastrophic-level

The number of graduates training to be teachers in England has slumped to “catastrophic” levels, with the government missing its own recruitment targets by more than 80% in key subjects such as physics.

The Department for Education’s initial teacher training figures show that just under 29,000 graduates have signed up this year, a 20% fall compared with 36,000 last year, and far below the 40,000 trainees registered during the pandemic in 2020-21.

But the figures are far worse for secondary school recruitment, where they are at just 59% of the DfE’s annual target, well below the 79% reached last year. It means the government has missed its own targets in nine of the past 10 years.

Secondly for teachers every year you work after the nqt year should result in a student loans credit of £1000, not deductible from salary, so like a bonus. After 15 years teaching in state schools fte all student loans to be wiped.

This, absolutely. I'd like to see the same for nurses, too.

I used to know loads of teachers, they've all retired early or left to do other things.

That’s really a symptom of the problem
rather than a desirable outcome though.

During the main parts of the pandemic we didn't have volunteers in but we did a lot before and afterwards.

We are primary though, well infants. So historically have used a lot of volunteer helpers to listen to readers, help with craft activities, do special music/art/reading sessions as well as for just general helping out.

We have volunteers of all ages, from teens doing work experience half a day a week during sixth form to older people in the community.

This was what did it for me. I was exhausted and got ill every holiday. I thought can I physically do this for another 20 years? I went part time but it ate into my days off so I was earning a part time salary for full time hours. Not sustainable. Now I am in the Civil Service treated like an adult can work at home for 3 days a week if I want and get flexi time.
I really resented the expectation that teachers will give up extra time for clubs etc with no recognition let alone time back.

How utterly terrible

it sounds like this government have managed education in the same way it is dealing with healthcare.

just terrifying for the young of this country

when will they fund the training and pay teachers a worthy wage?

instead of PPE thievery and HS2 fiasco etc

Dd is in her third year of a primary teaching degree. Like almost all routes to teaching she was expected to have classroom experience. She did as she did a lot in the school I teach in, from being a young teen right up to the pandemic hitting. She also did extra voluntary experience at a nearby primary special school, offered to run drama classes for free after school at my school, and volunteered at a drama club she'd gone to since being small and returned to help in the younger children classes.

I was surprised that quite a lot of the applicants hadn't done any volunteer work in schools/clubs before applying - many were relying on it that summer but the pandemic hit and it was cancelled. Unsurprisingly a number who hadn't been in schools beforehand have dropped out after their first in-person placement (delayed til their second year due to covid.)

Despite those who have dropped out they do have large intake on the primary education degrees. I wonder if these are more popular than the PGCE and SCITT schemes at primary?

We do take SCITT students at my school, normally 3 or4 each year. We had 3 this year, but one dropped out after the first few weeks. And that's at a good school, considered a nice one to work at.

I'd imagine secondary trainees are even thinner in the ground though.

I’m old enough that I’ve worked with many teachers who didn’t hold degrees, they had certificates of education. In face most the early years teachers I worked alongside. Fantastic teachers many of them, gifted communicators.

I’ve also worked with degree holding teachers without acceptable grammar in writing 🤷‍♀️

In our LA 85% of teachers don’t have a physics qualification (ie A level) in the subject. It’s already happening, that’s the reality. I’ve tutored year 9s who have only ever had cover supervisors and supplies for the entirety of their time in high school.

I didn’t leave teaching for the pay- it was the work life balance, stress and general lack of respect. My husband is leaving this term too. All the heads in the area I still know are thinking of leaving. I wanted a job reference recently- not a single senior leader I worked with over 15 years is still working in education (it’s been 5 years since I left, and 12 people I contacted).

Its such a mess

You couldn't pay me enough to be a teacher.

At one point as an acting deputy head I found myself as senco, teaching a class one day a week. Covering PPA regularly and sickness. No other senior leaders. Then the head resigned without notice (acting head now) and I found we had a 50k budget deficit. I was expected to be covering all the classes still no money somehow by governors, fire fighting sen without money and dealing with removal of asbestos/ budgets/ rewiring (did I mention no money). We had only 40% of staff on permanent contacts. It was a shit show no one could fix.

In the middle of this I gave birth to a disabled baby.

My mental health was such a mess for such a long time.

I know other senior leaders with far far worse stories, they are leaving in huge numbers.

Whatever happened to Nicky Morgan's workload survey? 😐

I agree. The problem is not solved just by attracting people to go in to teaching, we need to address pay and conditions to keep good teachers.

I have 2 friends who retrained as teachers in the last few years but didn't stay long. Both are highly qualified and experienced scientists with a passion for education. Both were horrified at the expectations on them as teachers v what they experienced in industry. They were expected to teach everything from Y7 to A level in very large classes, often with a huge range of abilities and additional needs in the same class. There was a huge amount of disruption in classes- often due to children with additional needs being who could not be given the support that they really needed due to funding and lack of staff. On top of this they were expected to work at evenings and weekends to plan/mark/keep up to date with the curricula for each year group. Plus an expectation that they would be involved in school events/after school clubs and be available after hours for meetings/discussions with parents. Both could not justify staying in a job where they had much less time for their own families and far lower pay, so they went back to their previous jobs. Both would love to have stayed in teaching if there was a way to do it with a better work/life balance.

In our LA 85% of teachers don’t have a physics qualification (ie A level) in the subject.

I’m not at all surprised. We have multiple schools in my area without a single physics specialist (ie no more than a GCSE themselves). My current private school struggles to recruit for physics and my previous (grammar) school was unable to replace a physics teacher who left in September.

Oddly enough, if your degree and skills mean you can earn more money with less stress elsewhere, teaching isn’t desirable. I know some people claim it is about the conditions rather than the money, but IMO it is both. A decade of below inflation pay rises does destroy morale and good will. I’m at the top of my pay scale, but if I wanted I could jump back to my previous career (I left 10 years ago) at almost the same salary I earn now, but with plenty of room to increase it.

Ultimately, if the government want teachers in schools they need to pay them properly and improve the conditions. I don’t think this government cares, though. And I honestly don’t think the average voter does either.

I've been doing some voluntary work in a secondary school... there is no way on God's earth I would go in to teaching.. I have SO much respect for the amazing teachers I have seen... seriously talented, caring people. I have absolutely no idea how they keep going in day after day to face the level of disrespect, laziness, entitlement and poor behaviour in classes from yr 7 up. This is a good school, with a strong SLT and high expectations of behaviour. God only knows what it is like in others....

@Winter2020 I do one of those senior jobs mentioned and teach full time due to budget. I’m pretty close to burn out. It’s not that unusual in primary but it’s not really doable long term, especially with a young family or other caring commitments.

I have 4 teacher friends and I’m pretty much constantly telling them to get out of there. They get hit on a weekly basis, the verbal abuse is appalling, and the parents they deal with regard them as indentured servants or people on national service.

I don’t know why anyone would go into or stay in teaching, and too many parents are blasé about this, thinking that they can somehow force someone to teach their kids (see the thread where a parent is wanting her child’s teacher to be asked to go PT because her attendance isn’t good enough).

Deadly combination of the big 7 fronts:

1. Poor and worsening pay in comparison to other graduate salaries in roles that require comparable skills.

2. Obscene and unachievable workload that is especially incompatible with having a family.

3. Utter hatred and contempt from the general public, parents, kids, government etc.

4. Increasing pastoral care and dealing with non-academic issues which takes so much time away from teaching and erodes the reputation and status of teachers. 99% of these are parenting issues but they want it outsourced to the school to deal with. Schools taking the burden, responsibility and blame for all of societies ills.

5. Worsening behaviour, respect and attitude to learning from students and parents. Behaviour is utterly horrific at the moment. No respect or discipline.

6. Battling with a massive cultural-shift in what children are like these days and what they engage with. Not to mention the increasing number of SEND issues which is impossible to cater for. Social media and digital technology has caused rudimentary comprehensive and problem-solving skills to diminish. Students don’t know how to focus, concentrate, only want instant gratification, have no resilience, self-discipline or hunger to learn. They expect to be entertained constantly and expect rewards with no work, decent conduct or competing for it. Teaching science practicals is becoming dangerous because maturity levels, common sense and a basic understanding of instructions is so poor.

7. Implementation of progressive educational strategies/cultures in school and moving away from traditionalist ones. This is the biggest debate in the educational sphere.

@Dotjones I think this is a big part

Teaching science practicals is becoming dangerous because maturity levels, common sense and a basic understanding of instructions is so poor.

Hence the trend of “slow practicals”. Instead of following a set of simple instructions, the teacher gives one instruction at a time and the kids only follow that one step. It really works, but it’s also very depressing that it’s necessary.

too many parents are blasé about this, thinking that they can somehow force someone to teach their kids

I think people can’t imagine that there will literally be no maths teacher for their child. They hear the warnings, but either dismiss it as teachers moaning or assume that Someone will do Something. And schools will make sure there’s an adult in the room attempting to teach maths. The majority of parents only really notice and care when their child isn’t going to pass maths gcse. At which point they scrape enough money to pay for a tutor or buy revision guides and hope that’s enough.

I wish the unions would be more action and less talking! The radio in the morning is full of news of NHS, postal, train, ambulance strikes but no publicity for teaching.

Teacher training is like psychological warfare - not everyone survives! You are bullied by the adults and the children. Many people working in schools are not in a good state, mental health-wise, so they don't make good colleagues and bullying of staff is rife. It's like you have a toxic workload situation but school staff choose to make the situation worse by turning on each other. Hell on earth basically and I've worked in some toxic places but never known anything like it - the bitching and backstabbing. You do get some cute kid moments but it's not enough. Not to mention that many secondary trainees take the bursary then leave - I've heard for some, the bursary was more than their first year ECT salary anyway.

The strike ballots haven’t closed yet though-don’t think the NEU one ends till next month.

Then we can look forward to everyone on the telly and radio moaning about teachers who haven’t worked at all for two years because of covid, only work 9-3pm for half the year and STILL want more money. Oh, and that we should strike during the (massively long) holidays or be fined like they are when they take their kids out of school on holiday. Can’t wait!

I think it's a vicious circle. Schools are so short-staffed that they just do not have capacity to spare staff to mentor people. The ones that do attempt to come in feel thrown to the dogs a bit and many flounder. And leave the profession early. And so it goes round....

My current trainee is excellent but very obviously finding it difficult to balance their teaching timetable with real world commitments. They are going to have to choose to give one up and I'm not sure teaching will be the one that they keep.

I thought that PGCE providers had been told that they were no longer allowed to require school experience. Our local ones were, and the drop-out rate in the first week that trainees actually go into schools is now an issue.

This with bells on.

A big part of the problem is the academisation of schools. Turning them into businesses, allowed to pay big bucks to the top select few, then hire lots of ECTs on one-year contracts to keep them on their toes and get rid of anyone expensiveexperienced. Do away with any conditions of service they want, get rid of support staff including those who deal with emotional or behavioural support. Among all the other stuff.

There's no way the government would u-turn on academies.

But they want schools to compete with each other, so Ofsted is here to stay, too.

Teachers can expect little or no change for years, imo. It's sad. I love the actual teaching part of teaching, I don't like everything else. That's why I'm looking for a potential way out at the end of this year or in the next couple of years.