After school clubs

[HereBeFuckery]

Once again, primary school cancel a pre-arranged after school activity with 27 mins notice before the end of the school day. Last week, they notified us 12 minutes AFTER the end of the day that the club was cancelled and to collect children from the school office 'immediately'.

I get that clubs aren't childcare or guaranteed, but essentially, if you work (y'know, like most parents) you have to say 'no darling, you can't do X fun after school activity' because you, as a parent, would have to be free, not in a meeting and within five mins drive of school just in case they cancel at zero notice AGAIN.

Even a couple of hours would mean I could sort something out. In 20 mins I have no chance.

WIBU to make a formal complaint to governors about the piss poor communication?

OP this is a pile on but I understand exactly what you're saying.

I think in future ignore the shitty attitude of the school. The reality is the reception staff or teachers who are stuck with a bunch of children who WOULD be in that club, milling around reception, when those staff just want to go home as planned.... well yes they will be pissed off themselves and that might well come over in their tone. It is not personal against you specifically. It's just an annoying situation for everyone.

Ultimately it's no different from if the sch wanted you to collect DC for illness in the middle of the day.. you do your best to get there as quickly as you can. That's all anyone can do.

The work/sahp thing is a red herring. As pp have said, sahp might be using that time to run errands or collect other dependants etc. Or just rely on public transport.. And might be equally unable to get to sch immediately.

So don't overthink it everyone!

That’s very short notice - it would take me longer than that to get to my child’s school from work! If it’s genuinely happening at such short notice so regularly then I don’t think that’s acceptable.

That said, they aren’t childcare and can be cancelled much more easily than childcare. My DD goes to one club a week, and on that day I still pay for the wraparound care which she goes to for about 20 minutes after her club is finished. Feels a bit of a waste of money sometimes but gives me security.

If the teachers own child is suddenly sick of f course you will get zero notice. Like I said it's not childcare.

As a parent who's had kids in school for 20 plus years please don't use these clubs as childcare. Teachers volunteer for these clubs, often they will get cancelled at short notice. The clubs can be ended at any time due to not enough children coming ot teacher has other commitments on that day it's also not guaranteed these clubs will run for a full term or even half of one. Why should other children miss out on these opportunities because some parents try to use them as childcare and get shitty with the teacher forcing them to decide it's just not worth it? These clubs are run for the children's sake, not everything has to have working parents in mind. If you require childcare hire someone who provides child care.

I get it OP.

DS does an after school club on a day that MIL takes him after school. She’s retired and I presume she somehow has plans until she leaves to pick him up 15 minutes before the club finishes.

*sometimes

That's up to her. But it's not the schools responsibly to ensure you have suitable childcare.

It's interesting parents think these clubs are run on a voluntary basis.
When I was an nqt I was told I had to run a clu. Or I wouldn't pass. Later I was threatened with losing my job in the same school, thinly veiled but the head was such a bully all the staff also came in on a Saturday to tidy the school unpaid and brought all their partners to help.
I finally stopped doing clubs when a different school tried to pull the same trick, trying to make out my contract said something different to the other staff members and then 'losing the contract' whilst issuing threats when I challenged them. I ran my own skilled club then for the enrichment of the children, but it was their insistence that I had to cover others on a regular basis (which I initially did for a long time to help up my colleagues) that meant I was done with clubs and that meant no one else could operate the clubs I ran as no one else had the training or expertise.
I have no doubt that the schools attitude stemmed from complaints by people like op who treat teachers like serfs. Even more appalling that she claims to be a teacher herself. Get paid childcare and stop complaining about others who provide your child with free opportunities or you'll be explaining why x activity stopped because you are an entitled pushy parent.

I do have suitable childcare @Plumbear2 . Who’s childcare is available at the drop of a hat? It’s no different to the time that the school told us at 2pm that they’d decided to get back an hour early from an all day school trip.

If it's an after-school club you ensure someone can pick them up from the time actual school finishes in case of cancellation which does happen. Childcare is not the schools responsibly.

Respectfully though, that's one experience. My experience is completely different to yours in that our activity clubs are run by external agencies and we pay for them (through our childcare account). Those agencies are a business and make money. It's the wrap around clubs that are run by staff (which we also pay for via the same method).
Both of these are no different in my experience to any other childcare that we have paid for.

Any childcare environment can need to cancel or close at short notice. I don't get the sense that anyone is saying that is unreasonable? I think the OP was reflecting on it happening twice in two weeks with very, very short notice.
From my experience (directly with my children and indirectly from the dozens of Mums I know with children at other schools), primary schools typically do not not always seem brilliant at communication. That is not a criticism just an observation. Most of them have several methods for relaying information (calls, apps, paper slips, messaging services, emails, newsletters). Our school is wonderful as are others I know of but we have all had situations where fairly basic information has not been relayed very successfully. I appreciate working with small children is like herding cats and at the same time it can be quite exasperating. Especially when you work in a business environment where communication is very slick.

Also fwiw for whoever said so up thread, we have never been late picking our children up from school and would absolutely not consider that acceptable unless it was an extreme emergency situation (like we got taken to hospital) and even then we have back ups in place. Those back ups still couldn't get to school in ten or twenty minutes if something was cancelled or a child was suddenly sick. If we took clubs out of the equation, I wonder if we would be saying that it was unreasonable for parents to work more than half an hour away in the day just in case their child was sick and needed collecting. People don't have that choice about where they work and many people now days don't have families or friends who can step in. It's really difficult and a constant struggle to make sure everyone is okay and to pay the bills.

I'm sorry you're being judged on here OP for feeling frustrated with the communication. I would find it frustrating too. I would ask the school about a sensible alternative plan as it seems possible this might happen more often with this particular group?

@Plumbear2 why do you think the paid for activity clubs are eligible for tax free childcare?

Teachers volunteer for these clubs, often they will get cancelled at short notice. The clubs can be ended at any time due to not enough children coming ot teacher has other commitments on that day it's also not guaranteed these clubs will run for a full term or even half of one.

That's how clubs are run in your experience. That's not how they are run in many other schools though.

There is an alternative plan, pay for proper childcare!

But @cuntyfucker we do pay for our children's activities. And I guess other forms of paid childcare such as a childminder could be cancelled at short notice too if someone was sick? Or a nursery could close because of an illness outbreak? I think the issue is more the way the cancellation was handled that the OP was raising.

I still don't understand (apologies if I'm being obtuse) what the definition of "proper childcare" is that some people on the thread are referring to?

Lots of kids I know went to preschool. It was free. Our kids went to a paid nursery which cost us lots even with a tax free childcare account. I can't see a difference between those two environments except the opening hours and the preschool children wore uniform. Both settings had paid staff, many of whom were teachers and provided activities.

I wouldn't consider Brownies childcare but then I wouldn't be able to pay for that via my tax free government childcare account as I do for all the after school clubs regardless of whether they are specific activities or wrap around. If the government didn't consider this proper childcare, I'm wondering why they allow you to use the childcare account to pay for them? And that the school has to be registered as a provider on the Gov gateway?

I agree the alternative plan is either get proper childcare or ensure you are able to pick them up if they have to cancel the club.

It’s interesting that your have basically just been screaming ‘get proper childcare’ for pages and pages despite many people telling you they pay for these activities and most importantly they are eligible for tax-free-childcare, so why are you taking issue with a club being used as childcare when it’s quite literally defined as childcare by both the government and the provider who had to sign up?

Because most after-school clubs aren't run this way.

It must be pretty frustrating to have last second cancellations to deal with.
But... teachers are not paid extra for it, maybe they need parent volunteers to help run the activities and no one signs up, maybe they get parents collecting late every time, unfair moaning, overwhelmed with their actual job, low motivation due to cutbacks etc. They want the club to be seen as about the children, not about their parents, so feel hard done by that parents see it as “just childcare”. And so they think “fuck this shit” rather than being committed and enthusiastic. I’m not a teacher, but have had the misfortune to be on committees for children’s clubs and their really is a minority of parents who are excruciatingly thoughtless and entitled (am not referring to anyone on this thread!).

It's nice to hear common sense Fleabigg
It's sad that 8 pages in some people still can't dont want to acknowledge the difference between wraparound childcare and an after school club.

Then again unless I had booked wraparound care then I'd expect to be home/close enough to school that I could pick DC up if a club was cancelled last minute. If I've not booked childcare or arranged for family to be on hand then the responsibility is mine from the end of the school day. I'd expect the school to be charitable if I was 5/10 mins later collecting in the event of a last minute cancellation though

*It's sad that 8 pages in some people still can't dont want to acknowledge the difference between wraparound childcare and an after school club.

Then again unless I had booked wraparound care then I'd expect to be home/close enough to school that I could pick DC up if a club was cancelled last minute. If I've not booked childcare or arranged for family to be on hand then the responsibility is mine from the end of the school day. I'd expect the school to be charitable if I was 5/10 mins later collecting in the event of a last minute cancellation though*

I agree. I get that the short notice is frustrating, but everyone surely knows that things can get cancelled at the last minute occasionally, and should have arrangements in place in case this happens.

I think the problem is that the lines can get blurred with these clubs because they take place on the school premises. Not many would consider a swimming class at the local pool, or a brownie meeting at the church hall to be childcare. But because an activity (paid for or not) takes place directly after school, many parents seem to consider them to be childcare, in a way they wouldn't for other activities.

That blurring occurs because the club collects the DC from school - if I booked DC into a Brownie meeting at a church hall, I would be dropping and collecting and thus available in the event of a cancellation.

An activity on school premises is different because that's not how it works and parents could easily be an hour away at the start of the activity.

Also, paying for childcare isn't a magic solution - our after school club isn't based at school, and they collect from at least five local schools, each of which will have multiple finishing time. It's not necessarily possible for them to add an extra car at short notice if an activity is cancelled.

*That blurring occurs because the club collects the DC from school - if I booked DC into a Brownie meeting at a church hall, I would be dropping and collecting and thus available in the event of a cancellation.

An activity on school premises is different because that's not how it works and parents could easily be an hour away at the start of the activity*

But it's not different. The only thing that is different is how the child arrives at the activity. Surely if a parent chooses to send a child to an activity that runs on school premises, then they should have a plan in place in case the activity gets cancelled. I accept that short notice cancellation is frustrating, but it can (and does) occasionally happen, and parents should really only send their child if they (or someone else on their behalf) can get there reasonably quickly. Just as they would with brownies, swimming etc.

These activities are not childcare, and shouldn't be treated as such. It's not the same as sending them to wraparound care.

It's hard for working parents, I know, I worked when my kids were primary age. But it just means that I had to plan for these things more than, say, a SAHP would. But that's life, it's how it works.

What you pay for when you pay for an outside agency to take your child to learn a skill you are paying for that individuals expertise, insurance, equipment and skill.

When you pay for childcare you are paying for childcare qualifications, safeguarding, first aid etc.

So unless these school clubs are charging you twice for both parts you are expecting them to play, you can't really expect them to do both as you are not paying them for both.

And when the club is bloody free you are not paying for anything so should be grateful it is offered at all and understanding if on occasion they can't happen. Because if you continue to do so you will find they are offered less and less.

@budgiegirl it's not that I don't want to acknowledge, it's that I have a different view based on my experiences. Everyone is entitled to their view points. I think it's kind of sad that people can't see that opinions are just that.

If I'm paying for wrap around because of work then I think that defeats the object if I can't be at work because work isn't ten minutes away.
If we paid for a childminder and they were sick I wouldn't expect to only use them when I wasn't working nearby just in case I had to collect my child. Same as nursery. How would anyone function beyond a ten mile radius from childcare?
I don't and can't pay for brownies via my government childcare account. I can for all after school activities.

I'm bowing out of this discussion now.