To not want to be a fifth wheel?

[Celia24]

And would you say something?

I'm friends with two women, let's say Sarah and Bex, we meet up every so often. I'm the single one at the moment.

A while ago, after years of women only meet ups, they asked if their boyfriends could join a night out. It was ok as thankfully we bumped into some of my other friends during the night but I felt awkward.

This weekend my friend, lets call her Sarah, has invited me and Bex over to her house. She now says her boyfriend will be there and has invited Bex to bring her boyfriend as well. I instantly don't want to go and actually turned down other plans for this.

Would you be honest in my shoes?

I understand how you feel. You are definitely not being ridiculous.

My friends and I were organising a girls only trip abroad a few years ago and one of the girls very nonchalantly started talking about her boyfriend coming like it was no big deal and almost as if it was a given that he could go and she didn't need to ask.

Of the others in the group, some were single and some of us in relationships but no one else wanted to bring partners as it materially changes the dynamic. Friend who did was told it was a girls holiday and she accepted this but was totally oblivious to the issue until it was pointed out. Some people just don't get it.

Isn't it 3rd wheel?

That confused me too.

A fifth wheel is something else altogether.

Same. I've always felt a bit like an alien when MN starts going on about girls' nights. All the social circles I've been part of have been mixed in terms of gender, sexuality and relationship status and deliberately segregating by any of those groups is so far from the norm to me.

I've been single and hung out with couples. I'm now in a couple and sometimes invite another couple and a single friend over. It's just combinations of people who like each other. The combinations aren't always the same. Nothing changes any dynamic in any special way.

There was a recent thread about making your partner leave the house when you invite your friends over and it was utterly bonkers to me that everyone actually did that. Any friends I invite over have also become DP's friends and vice versa. Regardless what sex they are.

We’re quite a mixed group too.. do you not find that no matter who comes the boys and girls end up sat in groups? The other day we had a huge conversation about birth and the gross that comes with it and dodgy smear tests all while the boys talked about the kids.

i Hang out with our married besties together when partner is at work and they just make me feel like we’re just a group of friends with their kids.. I do have other friends tho who do not make it comfortable like this and who I wouldn’t hang with just me and them.. I’m guessing your friends are the latter and i do feel for you! I would bail

What was their respons ewhne you said you weren't going because they decided to change the dynamic of the evening?

There was a recent thread about making your partner leave the house when you invite your friends over and it was utterly bonkers to me that everyone actually did that. Any friends I invite over have also become DP's friends and vice versa. Regardless what sex they are.

Oh God, it's definitely got to be a strange attitude when you live together! I would not appreciate being banished from the house (or even the living room) when my DPs friends are over. In my opinion it's inevitable partners will have some involvement in friendships when you share a life together in a lot of cases.

Agree - it totally changes the conversation as well and the potential silliness. The cool girls will be along soon to say there is no need for that but yes it does.

I'd be honest with them. You were looking forward to a girls night, and having blokes there - as nice as I'm sure they are - changes the dynamics massively.

Case in point for me, I like all my best friends husbands/partners. They are all perfectly nice men, and I'm happy to see them socially from time to time. But I didn't choose them! My friends all behave ever so subtly different when their OHs are around, and it changes the event. I'm sure my friends all feel the same about MY dh!

No point moping at home. I can't see why it's a problem TBH

Thanks @TidyDancer - clearly other people do feel similarly when the dynamic changes.

I think it's great that others are happy to socialise with other couples. I don't feel comfortable with it right now - a PP says their friends become DP's friends. I have always become friendly with friends partners but not super close.

As I mentioned I've been something difficult medical things lately (which the friends know about) so I'm feeling quite sensitive and just really needed a girls night. I'll see the other group tonight instead.

Exactly how I feel @zingally - the guys are pleasant enough and I don't mind seeing them in a mixed group.

We have different conversations as like you say, the friends acting slightly differently with their DPs. If it had been clear from the off, fine, but the partners were only mentioned last night.

It's disingenuous to suggest that the dynamic is the same with two couples and a single person, compared to a group of women or a mixed group where no-one is attached, when we all know it isnt!

In response to those confused by 'girls nights' I'm one of a group of 7 Women who when we first became friends were all single (actually freshly divorced and quite broken in 4 cases).

We spent a lot of time together as a group, supporting each other, healing, no Men around. Over the years we've each had relationships and flings that have come and gone and now we've got 2 marriages, an engagement, 2 long-term relationships and 2 singles.

As much as we all like and enjoy the company of the Men (and are very lucky that they all get on with each other) there is definitely something different about a night that's just us 7 again.

The overwhelming majority of our social events are all of us, or a mixed selection of some of us, but once or twice a year we make a point of it just being us.

Agree - it totally changes the conversation as well and the potential silliness. The cool girls will be along soon to say there is no need for that but yes it does.

I'm not saying it doesn't change the dynamic, just that I've personally never been in a friendship group where the dynamic was something defined and sacred that cannot be changed. They may have started as a particular combination of women but have naturally evolved over the years as everyone has gained more friends and partners.

There's nothing wrong with labelling certain gatherings as a "girl's night" and only inviting certain people, but I think if it's never been explicitly said that this is what it is, miscommunication can happen, because not everyone assumes friendship groups will never evolve or gain more members.

I'm sure your friends will know full well why you have cancelled. They would feel exactly the same, if they were the single one at any point. Maybe they'll be more sensitive next time. I would be completely open about it and tell them it's not that you don't get on with their partners, it's that you feel awkward about being the only one not 'paired up'.

I'm sorry you're upset Op. I hope you're able to go out with your other friends tonight and have a good time.

I would just say can we do a girlie night a different time . If they don't get it they're a bit slow on the up take !"

Mybe the plan is for the men to go and do something together and you three do something together. You could ask?

I understand you're feeling and thinking that way. Meeting up with your friends is a totally different occasion to meeting up with their partners as well. Weekends might be trickier. You know how couples tend to want to spend that time together.

Perhaps their BFs are disappointed not to spend the Sat eve with their GFs?

It makes the conversation more general when partners are there. You can't confide eg if you are dating, having a hard time at work as the partners will be there to hear all.

Passive aggressive but if I were you, I would hint that I have a juicy piece of info, start to tell, then look over at the partners and say, maybe not, I will tell another time. I bet your friends will want to arrange another meeting and leave the partners at home!!

I don't mind partners coming if I am meeting friends who are more acquaintances and making general conversation. But it is very difficult when you have good friends and feel you can't talk with the partners there.

At least you can mane the decision about going or not, OP. It would have been less pleasant if they decided it for you. Haopemed to me, somekne decided it would jave neen to awkwarf for me to socialise with couples so didn’t invite me and told me about it.

Passive aggressive but if I were you, I would hint that I have a juicy piece of info, start to tell, then look over at the partners and say, maybe not, I will tell another time. I bet your friends will want to arrange another meeting and leave the partners at home!!

I can't imagine having friends who I was so unsure of that instead of being able to breezily decline an event (mixed meetup) & ask to arrange an alternative (women only) ... I had to resort to soap-opera worthy contortions, hints & intrigue.

Or having friends who only wanted to see me without their partners to extract 'juicy info'.

Is there any way that you can change your mind and go on the singles night instead of this? Then just say to the couples that you forgot that you had something else on and that you'll catch them again for a girls night out sometime soon.

Can you find a way to split up the evening? On my experience, when my friends meet with partners, we’re able to move around (then men go off to make the tea and have a chat in the garden, etc). It’s not that we spend the whole time in fixed seating, IYSWIM.