Londoner? ULEZ expansion - wrong time?

[GrubzUp]

I like Sadiq Khan, in general I applaud green initiatives.

However it's been announced today that the original inner London low emission zone is to be expanded into outer London - meaning that if you have an older, more polluting vehicle it will cost you £12.50 every time you drive it anywhere in London (inside the M25 I think).

I live in outer London. There are a LOT of older, non ULEZ compliant vehicles on the road round here. At the moment, people don't need to be compliant for local trips, because unless they're heading inside the North / South Circular Rd, they are fine in their older cars.

I look out in the street and see my neighbours' cars: the people who tend to drive older vehicles are the young, the old, the disabled and the poor.

AIBU to say that hitting them with a big new tax for driving anywhere in the middle of a cost of living crisis is the WRONG time? If they can't afford a newer model they certainly can't afford to pay £12 every time they take it off the drive. I feel bad for these people. How are they going to afford it?

Note that public transport here is not what it is in inner London, you can't just "jump on the tube".

cheaper than cars and alot cheaper to run, on account of not needing fuel and all that

If you are a high mileage driver then the savings in tailpipe emissions will quickly outweigh the embodied emissions from the manufacture of a new car. If on the other hand you drive your car to the shops once a week then you may as well keep the old car (and stomach the charge, it's only once a week instead of every day) because your low mileage keeps the tailpipe emissions lower.

The bikes will be stolen which seems to happen regularly

Yes and cars - they're always getting nicked

I love my child having breathing problems. I can’t believe Sadiq Khan is trying to help him!

I know, what a bastard!

I have a friend who regularly ran in central London at lunchtime - excellent runner - then last year he got a chest infection and could barely walk. He ended up in hospital and can now not run at all and even struggles to walk upstairs. His consultant has told him it’s down to breathing in pollution over years.

Another friend has terrible asthma and regular nasty chest infections. He live in the middle of Clapham. His consultant has told him to move.
The same with a friend who spent her whole life working in the centre of Greenwich.
I’m going to have to scrap my car because it’s not compliant. I know so many people with chest problems I’ll be thankful when all these cars are gone.
Sadiq Khan has made very hard decisions.

Let’s not forget that the Tory who rang against Khan was partying with billionaires during lockdown. Had he been elected he wouldn’t have helped anyone but his rich friends.

I've seen fridges being transported on bikes

Me too, but it was a meme to show how ridiculous (and utterly unsafe) it was!

Redbridge, surely able bodied people who live in Central london don't need a car

What does 'able bodied' mean? It's not an immutable status.

You may not be disabled (or qualify for an exemption - the magic solution some are hailing here) but perhaps could be recovering from an operation, or child birth, a million other issues that could make it difficult for you to navigate public transport during a certain period of time.

London for the rich, young, able bodied, healthy, sporty, and travelling light. Anything else?

From what I can gather people affected will be mostly diesel drivers

I do get that for poorer families this will just be really shitty timing

but

I remember clear as day watching a panorama documentary about how awful diesel cars were for air quality and for causing breathing problems for kids, including kids sat in the back of the diesel car itself (this had never previously occured to me). That was in 2014 and we started the process of selling our diesel car the very next day. The government (and car industry) were 100% wrong to tell us that diesel cars were environmentally friendly BUT this has been well known for quite a while now.

Diesels are less of a concern away from cities where they don't idle in traffic as much but frankly shouldn't be allowed anywhere near cities. All diesel cars are to be banned from Paris by 2024, no hefty charges, just not allowed at all.

I don't live in London but wish Greater Manchester would go a similar way. Unfortunately although Andy Burnham is wanting to do similar, he has massive resistance and not have anything like the executive authority that Khan has to press ahead anyway.

The horse, - so are you claiming no heavy goods are transported on bikes? Would you like me to post some pics? And also, genuinely, how do all the thousands of people who don't own a car, go about their daily lives - operations, child birth, whatever - because somehow miraculously they manage

Would you like me to post some pics?

No, I've said that I've seen the fridge on bike video and it isn't practical or safe to do it

Are you suggesting that it would be desirable for people in the UK to start transporting white goods on bikes? Is this what progress looks like to the crunchy mob or would we be going back 100 years (at least)?

It was the death of the 9 year old in Lewisham due to road pollution in 2013- the first recorded death caused by pollution. And some of the outer parts of London have high rates of pollution related death, so Bromley, Havering, Croydon, Barnet.

This extension is supported by the Conservatives too.

I call it dystopia

This extension is supported by the Conservatives too

No, passing on the blame doesn't work. Labour could have decided to scrap or alter the plans but didn't. That's all we need to know

I call it dystopia

Why dystopia? Trendy word?

@thehorsehasnowbolted - the current expansion was supported by the Department of Transport and Grant Shapps suggested it. Khan agrees

@Frazzled2207 biggest issue with Manchester is the state of the public transport. So many trains (most of them nasty 1980s diesels) are funnelled through Castlefield Junction that the slightest issue causes massive delays. Oxford Road station needs remodelling to allow trains to flow through it more smoothly. Extra through platforms at Piccadilly would help too, as would electrifying Warrington Central, Southport, and the routes across the Pennines.

Khan agrees

Apologism. He could have blocked, delayed or amended it. He didn't

Dystopia: world or society in which people lead wretched lives

Sums up our congested cities very well in our view.

*my, not "our". I only speak for myself.

I think Khan agreed because it was a condition of the tube ball out. I don't think that is apologism on my part. This is cross party policy invented by Boris Johnson, extended by Grant Shapps and Khan.

I approve of it, because some outer London boroughs have filthy air.

I approve of it, because some outer London boroughs have filthy air.

I see you are trying to do some deep thinking now

Either there is a "climate emergency" or there isn't. The government (rightly) says there is.
The time for sorting this out gently was 40 years ago. We are where we are. Polluting vehicles need to be off the roads. It will cost more in the long run otherwise.

Maybe all the community nurses and carers can just swap to bicycles as well as the white good delivery drivers and cricket players. Good luck finding them to cycle around these large boroughs who already take hours to get to palliative patients to administer pain relief, or maybe they should use public transport to get to see their patients as that’s what they do in central London they can just do the same in outer London.

Thankfully I turned down my community nursing role as I didn’t want to use my personal car for work and thankfully other nurses do these roles but as we already have a massive shortage of nurses and carers this will have a huge effect on these roles and therefore potential to have an effect on hospital waiting times as lack of care in the community is a main reason for delayed discharge.
But remember they can just get on a bike after all those nurses in call the midwife did it.