Londoner? ULEZ expansion - wrong time?

[GrubzUp]

I like Sadiq Khan, in general I applaud green initiatives.

However it's been announced today that the original inner London low emission zone is to be expanded into outer London - meaning that if you have an older, more polluting vehicle it will cost you £12.50 every time you drive it anywhere in London (inside the M25 I think).

I live in outer London. There are a LOT of older, non ULEZ compliant vehicles on the road round here. At the moment, people don't need to be compliant for local trips, because unless they're heading inside the North / South Circular Rd, they are fine in their older cars.

I look out in the street and see my neighbours' cars: the people who tend to drive older vehicles are the young, the old, the disabled and the poor.

AIBU to say that hitting them with a big new tax for driving anywhere in the middle of a cost of living crisis is the WRONG time? If they can't afford a newer model they certainly can't afford to pay £12 every time they take it off the drive. I feel bad for these people. How are they going to afford it?

Note that public transport here is not what it is in inner London, you can't just "jump on the tube".

I think if you bought a non-compliant diesel car after that date then you were taking a gamble

and what about the many, many people who bought cars well before that date and had no intention of ditching a reliable car?

And when are they going to change the goal posts on the cars that are currently compliant. Will they change it to fully electric or hybrid cars in another 5 or 10 years. This country is only for the rich now, we use our car to take our kids to all their sport and activities and for me to work. Now that’s only going to be the remit of the wealthy.

They are already discussing road user charging and putting proposals together so people have to pay per mile.

I bet it will make little impact on traffic. I'll just replace my nice reliable, fully functioning car next year rather than in 4 years or so when DD has been through Uni.

if the traffic in the current ULEZ is reduced it must have been constantly at a standstill before.

The problem being that if you need a larger 7 sprayer car then they were nearly all diesel. Even now trying to find a petrol version is extremely difficult and the prices are extortionate as a result. Our car is 2015 and was bought as it was “eco” and paid lower tax. It is six months too old to be compliant.

It's utter shit. I'm surprised by this. We live within the original ULEZ zone and couldn't manage without a car (I need it for my commute, which takes me out of London -- but of course from my house.)

We sold our old car, which was cheaper to run and had a better engine than our new car, for a ridiculously low price because no one wanted non-ULEZ compliant cars last autumn. (In retrospect I wonder if I should have driven it hundreds of miles away to sell it.)

We bought a new car which is shit. The whole thing cost us about 10 grand. Ironically, I use the car more than before because I feel I have to justify spending so much money that could have gone on other things on driving, ie that I am a person who has made a commitment to myself as a driver.

It is 8 months' notice. Only the very rich or people who wanted or needed to change car anyway were going to do something unnecessary and expensive before the actual decision was taken.

There is nothing wrong with my 2015 diesel apart from it not meeting this new rule. It could probably do another 60,000 miles which would take me decades!

I don't know why they bothered with the consultation tbh.

And btw the traffic in the current ULEZ zone is worse than ever. Two weeks ago it took me 7 mins to get to the nearest supermarket and park. It is a mile away and was raining. It took me 45 minutes to get back with two hungry DC in the car. Two weeks before that I had to be rescued along with 10 or so other cars and buses by the police from complete gridlock in White City. Road cut down to a single line for roadworks, a double decker bus shot in as the lights were changing and one was also entering at the other end, and we were all blocked. That was two hours of a Sunday I will never get back.

Why it is worse I don't know. Some construction projects. Some closures (Hammersmith bridge). Terrible effect of cycling lines on main roads. I am not opposed to cycle lanes but the planning is ridiculous. Why would anyone want for example to cycle along the ROAD in Lancaster Gate/ Queensway when they could be a few metres away cycling through Hyde Park? The A40 in Acton is permanently more congested after the road was shrunk to make room for a new on-pavement cycle lane. As I sit for an hour or more a week in slow traffic, I hardly ever see anyone in it. I assume this is because few people want to cycle along the side of near-stationary heavily polluting traffic when there are so many alternative routes.

Yes. I totally agree with the sentiment behind it - the environment is in a shocking state; however it's going to put massive financial pressure on people.

The bottom line is that this is about reducing pollution, which is obviously a good objective. But it will do nothing to reduce congestion.

If people are willing to sit in a jam, that's a free choice.

HopsLong, why would anyone want to drive down that road either, why not have your supermarket shop delivered then your kids won't be exposed to all those fumes

I don't know: I'm not really happy with the narrative that people (often women) should be punished for doing totally normal legal things like driving to the shops or getting to a shift at work.

That online shopping needs to be delivered!

And when are they going to change the goal posts on the cars that are currently compliant. Will they change it to fully electric or hybrid cars in another 5 or 10 years. This country is only for the rich now, we use our car to take our kids to all their sport and activities and for me to work. Now that’s only going to be the remit of the wealthy.

This. Those who think this is the end of it are being naïve

The problem being that if you need a larger 7 sprayer car then they were nearly all diesel. Even now trying to find a petrol version is extremely difficult and the prices are extortionate as a result. Our car is 2015 and was bought as it was “eco” and paid lower tax. It is six months too old to be compliant.

@BooksAndHooks We bought our 7 seater petrol car second-hand a few years ago and yes a lot were diesel but not ‘nearly all’. We looked at quite a few cars for sale. So a bit more difficult to find a petrol one, but not impossible.

If it is such a brilliant idea for the environment, they should introduce it countrywide. Everywhere.

It's cheaper to run a bicycle than a car, just for the rich you say?

Soupdragon, even in non congested areas? Strange logic

@Devoutspoken

why would anyone want to drive down that road either, why not have your supermarket shop delivered

Oh for goodness sake. I have 90% of the shopping delivered. Occasionally it fucks up, with missing items, or plans change and people come over for dinner unannounced etc so I have to go to the shop myself.

The road is not normally so busy. Obviously I would not go to that supermarket if it was normally 45 mins in the car. In fine weather we would have walked but it was pissing it down.

How do you fit 3 children and a dog on a bike?

Phineyj, plenty of women feel 'punished' by the heavy traffic and pollution

Yes, the environment/climate change exists even in non congested areas. How strange of you to think otherwise.

Apparently this isn't about congestion anyway it is about pollution. A vehicle pollutes the same amount wherever it is.

Cargo bikes take small kids. If you've built your life around a car, it will be difficult to adjust but families do exist without cars

Soupdragon, one car pollutes less than 10 cars

If it is such a brilliant idea for the environment, they should introduce it countrywide. Everywhere

There are countries around the world where they have to rely on human powered vehicles for transportation. Is this really what you would like the UK to turn into? Have a word with yourself

Human powered vehicle, like a bicycle?