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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Prosecution for lying about income to CMS

53 replies

Toastandavocado · 22/11/2022 22:53

Am I being unreasonable to think that all maintenance dodgers should be prosecuted when they have wilfully and now proved to have “criminally” diverted income to avoid paying for THEIR children. I’m my opinion they should as this economic crime has far reaching and huge implications for the welfare of many, most importantly the child/children and the ex partner they are continuing to financially control and abuse.

www.cps.gov.uk/mersey-cheshire/news/ps100k-year-businessman-sentenced-dodging-years-child-maintenance-payments

Every single RP parent who is in the horrendous CMS system who has an ex who is hiding or diverting income or who is not paying the maintenance they should or who has arrears is criminal in their approach.

From this MP interaction, I’ve always been drawn to Caroline Noakes statement

”I congratulate the hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows) on securing this important debate, and I thank the Minister for taking time earlier today to speak to me about some of the cases that are of concern to me in my constituency.

Once upon a time, I was the Minister with responsibility for the CMS, and my worry is that our debate will degenerate into an attack on the hard-working staff. I know from my own experience how diligent they are—sometimes in the most difficult of circumstances, trying to track down parents who refuse to pay and investigating those very difficult cases where people deliberately hide their income. I think there is a special place in hell for those who go out of their way to disguise income to prevent their former partner from being able to feed their children, or to buy school shoes or a new winter coat.

From the work that has been done by Gingerbread and others, I am conscious that single parents have been hit very hard during this pandemic, and we know that 80% of them are women. As Chair of the Women and Equalities Committee, I am extremely interested in how well the CMS has coped with the many cases in which income has varied over the course of the pandemic. Of course, that means that variations will have to be efficient and quick. As parents come off furlough, it is possible for their income to go up as well as down.

We know that the strain on families during the pandemic has increased. I thank the Minister for the work that he is doing with victims of domestic abuse, and I thank my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister for the priority that he has given to that. It is important to reflect on the fact that not all domestic abuse is physical. Some of it is financial, and I have heard numerous times from constituents over the last nine months about the financial abuse they have suffered at the hands of ex-partners, and how the CMS has been drawn into that as variation after variation is requested and income is disguised. I have been privy to the emails from parents threatening, “Unless you agree to this figure, I will just keep asking for a variation so you get nothing.”

I also heard this morning from a constituent who has been forced to contact her former partner’s employer herself, because the CMS has not been in a position to chase up the direct deduction from earnings order that she was entitled to. She feels very strongly, and she is right, that she should not be the one who has to chase it up. If the CMS has a deduction from earnings order in place, it should be contacting the employer when the money has not gone through.

Finally, I would like to raise the case of my constituent Stuart McAuliffe, whose issues with the CMS long predate the pandemic but have been exacerbated by it. Some of that is about the fact that CMS staff did not have access to records at the beginning of the pandemic, but for years he has been asking for a breakdown of the amount that he owes in arrears—the charges that he believes were wrongly levied as part of a collect and pay arrangement, when he had been on direct pay and had been paying regularly. He feels very strongly that he should never have been moved to collect and pay, and that those charges have been accrued wrongly.

My constituent has asked for a schedule of payments, but he has been told that that information is not available. Surely, it must be available. Anybody who is involved with the CMS should be entitled to look at a breakdown of what they have paid, what arrears there may be and what charges may be on their account. The only information that he gets from the CMS is that it cannot provide him with that detail. I ask my hon. Friend the Minister if he will look at the case personally so that my constituent can finally get some resolution.

I think it is crucial that we recognise that the CMS is working in incredibly difficult times, and that it has many challenges in front of it. However, it is critical that paying parents and parents with care are given the support that they need at this difficult time. As the hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw said, no child should be going without and no child should be suffering because of the CMS.”

hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2021-01-21/debates/0E3957B0-D917-4B4B-9D08-0C7F6486B4AB/Covid-19ChildMaintenanceService

NOTHNG HAS CHANGED… NOTHING! There’s a special place in hell for these ‘Politicians’ who do nothing to action change and lift children out of poverty, give them a better start in life and ALSO protect women (RPs) from abuse.

We need a movement, we need a collective approach and this could be a starting point. Over 50% of the population are now female. We need to make our voices heard. This could be your sister, your friend, your daughter. Believe me, you want us to change this system should your loved ones ever find themselves in it, and they could. Petitions have been done… time and time again… MPs have debated it… time and time again, for years. NOTHING has changed. What do we do? This is a hugely gendered issue and as the mother of two daughters I do not want to see her his injustice and toxic culture continue into their generation.

So, am I being unreasonable to think prosecution is a necessary step to send a very clear message and hopefully bring society in line with what should be a collective ‘societal thought’ to those who evade paying for their children. That thought being, they are criminals, and should be treated as such.

OP posts:
Bathsheba1878 · 24/11/2022 18:48

I agree entirely OP. At present there is no incentive for the NRP to be honest about their income and therefore they may as well conceal it as there is no penalty for doing so - the worst that’s going to happen is that they get found out and are made to pay what they should have paid in the first place. I went through an 8 year battle with my, extremely affluent, child’s father to get the correct amount of child maintenance. During that time we had numerous tribunal hearings at which he told endless lies and ‘forgot’ lots of his assets. Eventually I appealed to the Upper Tribunal and the final outcome was that his assets were forensically assessed and he had to pay me all the money owed. The Upper Tribunal Judge castigated him, in writing, for being a liar and a terrible parent but that was literally the only ‘punishment’ he received for years of calculated deception. Aside from anything else it must have cost the tax payer thousands to fund all the hearings. I don’t doubt for a minute that if CMS evasion was a criminal offence my child’s father would have paid up right from the start.

Toastandavocado · 24/11/2022 19:34

Bath utterly unbelievable he wasn’t prosecuted at this stage! It’s a criminal act, economic abuse and harms you and your children. It is and should be treated as a crime! If this was a single mother claiming more in benefits that she should I wonder if it would just be a ‘telling off”. The ridiculous waste of resources (and cost to the taxpayer) should be criminal too! It’s infuriating. I’m at first stage 😩 waiting on a tribunal date, but like you, I’ll take it all the way to upper if I need to.

OP posts:
Kathy1970 · 01/08/2024 15:24

Toastandavocado · 24/11/2022 19:34

Bath utterly unbelievable he wasn’t prosecuted at this stage! It’s a criminal act, economic abuse and harms you and your children. It is and should be treated as a crime! If this was a single mother claiming more in benefits that she should I wonder if it would just be a ‘telling off”. The ridiculous waste of resources (and cost to the taxpayer) should be criminal too! It’s infuriating. I’m at first stage 😩 waiting on a tribunal date, but like you, I’ll take it all the way to upper if I need to.

Did you ever get to tribunal and what happened? I agree with everything you say above. The system is absolutely broken and failing kids, mums. I am about to go into tribunal with wealthy ex who is determined to pay nothing. It's a fight he feels he must win despite the costs to his own child. Any advice much appreciated!

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