Why should I have to pay money to keep people safe?

[Bibo]

I don't suppose this will go down well so have NC and donned my hard hat.

Walking through the city centre today I was approached by a teenager chugging for an organisation and asking for donations to stop knife crime. He had an attitude when i politely declined.

As I walked away I couldn't help but think to myself - why should the general public who are largely struggling with the COL increase, have to pay to lower our chances of either us or our loved ones being stabbed.

Why is it our responsibility to manage and mitigate the effects of other people's crap parenting and in alot of cases, the young person just being a little shit.

AIBU? Would you donate?

I'm assuming it's the usual speal about giving teenagers opportunities, youth clubs etc.

The person I mentioned above who killed a mutual friend and tried to kill his brother was at the local youth club every.single.weekend.

Well the whole chugger model is not one I like. However some of our taxes go towards keeping people safe because as much as this government tries there is still an expectation from society that we provide for the most vulnerable. Your council tax funds adult and children's social care. As a CP social worker- it is no way enough but we are better off than adult services. Lots of propping up by the third sector- many have lost council funding and donations have dropped massively. Do you want vulnerable adults and children to be safe OP?

Your last line made me chuckle, typical chugger guilt tripping 😂

There was a bloke on the train on my way home today, haven't seen anyone begging like that for a good few years. When he didn't get any cash he pulled out a card machine, the white one, can't remember the name. I kid you not.

'Little shit' is probably too kind to describe someone who stabs someone else.
Violent, aggressive murderer/attempted murderer too.
Surely you don't mean a bleeding heart 'oh how dreadful and cruel to be called that'?

I hate fucking chuggers, I'd never give to them as I wouldn't want to encourage that model of raising funds. I'd give direct to the charity if I wanted to.

I answered an elderly relatives door recently and a chirpy young chap said something along the lines of 'Oh you're here, the neighbours said you were away to do a parachute jump for xxxxx charity,'
All I could do was shut the door on him as I really didn't have any words

I don't mind contributing to some charities but I do object to the CEO getting hundreds of thousands in salary, money meant to go to the cause.

They're out on the streets by me a lot, and knife crime is a big problem, but I don't give to any charity on the street...money, details, nothing. If they were just trying to stop you for a chat and give you a leaflet that would be fine, but they don't, so I won't. I don't buy that having youth clubs etc stops this kind of thing, unless you get get behind the gang cultures that exist nothing will help.

I'm always a bit skeptical of cold calling fundraisers, it's usually pretty common that they need to fundraise their own wage first and then anything after that gets to the actual charity and I don't feel that's the best way to accrue funds. Also if I'm donating then I want to have clear explanation of where my money is going and how it will be spent so I generally donate to charities I've worked with that I know are ethical. I also think government underfunding key services such as the care system/healthcare system/ provision of accommodation/ education system etc is something they should be held accountable for rather than charities being put under pressure to ask joe public to fund them more so they can pick up the slack that government cuts create.

That being said, most of the young people I work with have carried knives and weapons of some description at some point. Most of them have been homeless and slept rough at some point and feel they need something to defend themselves with if they are attacked and knowing them I honestly don't think any of them would carry with the intention of using aggressively (as in not self defense). The rest are care experienced and have grown up in an environment where they have experienced extensive trauma and have learnt the hard way that they need to be seen as tough so they aren't seen as weaker targets by other young people in similar backgrounds and then abused further as a result. It's a pretty brutal environment to grow up in and we have to do a lot of work to convince them that they don't need 'protection' (as they see it) when they're in our centre and to use the sharps box we provide to dispose of weapons. None of our young people now carry regularly which is a sign they're doing better, feeling more confident and are more able to trust others and have better social groups. It also usually means they're living in more secure and stable accommodation. Obviously not every young person whos homeless or from a care background will carry but it makes it much more likely that they'll feel the pressure to. That being said I also think the issues we have here around knife crime are slightly different to the culture of knife crime that parts of England for example have so geography has an impact on it too.

@Bibo but it is not guilt tripping. There are many agencies and countless third party initiatives that do work hard to keep people safe. The welfare system has been very broken for a long time and the current government will not fund any preventative programmes because they will not do long term. At some point, even those who think they will never need it, may find a reason to look for support. It may be gang related stuff for young people (which can cross over into 'normal families' not just the very vulnerable groups such as care leavers etc), vulnerable older people such as those with alzheimers, sudden life-limiting illness, bereavement, disability. For lots of people life can change in an instant and many are very surprised that the 'safety net' is not what they thought it was. I am surprised chuggers still exist but many charities are a real lifeline.

Were they "Inside Success"?

Common around London, groups of teenagers, usually black. Selling a magazine often say it's about fighting knife crime.

It's not a charity and not registered with the charity commission.

It is a community interest company, a type of private company that is supposedly doing good.

Kids are set very high selling targets and not paid if they don't get it.

Often these are kids who wouldn't have lots of job opportunities so possibly getting some sales experience might help them then get other proper jobs - but that's as much good as it does I think..

Why is it our responsibility to manage and mitigate the effects of other people's crap parenting and in alot of cases, the young person just being a little shit.

Can't really ignore the drug trade though & the consumers

I've just checked online and yes that's the one.

"Why is it our responsibility to manage and mitigate the effects of other people's crap parenting and in alot of cases, the young person just being a little shit."

I would say it's actually much more predatory than this, at least where I live. I've seen young people move to a new area via the care system knowing nobody and within their first day there, they've been recruited by other vulnerable young people, offered substances for 'free' and then that freebie is called in as debt. Then that debt is recalled by way of a favour such as transporting weapons/recruiting other vulnerable kids etc etc. It's grown men puppeting vulnerable young people who they know fine well have limited support systems to help them get out of it again. So just calling them little shits really minimises the scale of the issue which is actually exploitation of individuals and communities.

That's another area I have personal experience of unfortunately.

Nothing, short of being locked up, will stop those drug dealers from wanting to deal.

My ex did it. The same one who threatened me with a knife. He didn't need opportunities he needed a good hiding and a lengthy prison sentence.

They don't do it out of desperation, they do it because to them it's easy money, it fits the image they want to portray. They wouldn't want a proper job if you offered it to them.

Agree. Knife crime and county lines are just two of the awful consequences of the Tories' decision to cut so many police officers and such a lot from budgets of all aspects of law enforcement.

@Bibo can't have supply without demand

Knife crime statistics will not improve until Judges statt handing out proper sentences for carrying knives.
On the subject of chuggers, my experience was, not chugging but a cold call a few years ago, a young man trying to sell me an insurance policy which would pay out if i contracted one of the female cancers ( although he probably wouldn't be able to say "female" nowadays)
I said no thanks I'm not interested.
He got shirty and said, what,? Your not interested in female cancers?
I just replied "I'll take my chances with everyone else thanks"

What pisses me off is that they’ve started knocking on my door.

I've just been reading about this organisation on reddit. Somebody said they've looked up their accounts on Company House and could see that 75 percent of their sale amount went to commission in 2014. That says it all I think. I doubt much has changed.

I don't donate to charities/fundraisers at all now. Whenever somebody sends me an invitation to donate to a fundraiser, I just ignore it. It's the one thing I should feel guilty about but I really don't.

Is it the cause that bothered you or more the chugging itself? I am more likely to donate to a knife crime charity but will not give chuggers money.

A bit of both, Vlad.

As I touched on upthread I've had alot of personal experience of knife crime blighting my life and the lives of people I care about. I know for an absolute fact that there is nothing that an organisation like inside success could do to prevent those people from carrying knives and attacking people. I feel like knife crime is an emotive topic, understandably, and orgs like this are piggybacking off the back of people grief/fears. As is usually the case with things like this the vast majority of the money goes to the people at the top sat on their arses.

Dispite how I feel towards teenagers and young adults who carry knives, i also think young people are being exploited by orgs like this.

After looking into it a bit more tonight I can see the whole premise is about selling the organisations magazine. That is how they're getting kids "off the street" - they're just putting them on a different street after teaching them high pressure sales techniques and encouraging them to harass people.

Then what you have is young people who are antisocial by nature, and quite intimidating really, bullying people in the street to hand over money.

In any other situation it would be deserving of a call to the police but stick an anorak on them and its simply fundraising.

Thinking that the kids get into these lifestyles because they’re just a “little shit” or the product of ‘shit’ parenting is the epitome of privilege.

It is virtually impossible to escape what you are born into.