AIBU to expect the tenants to turn the heating up?

[LadyMaine]

I've owned my 3 bed Victorian house for 7 years. There was a little bit of damp in the downstairs bay window but nothing serious.

I moved for work at end of August this year and rented it out. Within a few weeks the tenants (3 adults & dog) started complaining of damp and mould. When I went to inspect the house was very cold.
They said they are worried about high heating bills. I do understand this but have told them they really need to turn the heating up.

The boiler is in full working order as are the extractor fans in the kitchen and bathroom.
I installed new double glazed windows throughout when I bought the house. It also has a damp course installed.

Now they are complaining that there is black mould and that one of the tenants' asthma is getting worse.
What can I do to get them to turn the heating up?

But surely the tenant has a part to play in this if it’s caused lifestyle issues ( no heat ,ventilation , putting stuff against outside walls or drying washing inside)

if a tenant doesn’t heat or ventilate the property they will cause the problem . How is that the LL fault if it’s a direct result of the tenants action .

I'd be looking into the legalities of terminating their contract as they are damaging your property. Maybe contact the Landlords Association?

There's no clear information to suggest that they are not heating or ventilating the property. Maybe they are not heating or ventilating it enough to address the pre-existing damp problem (picked up in the due diligence when the OP bought this business asset).

But unless they're under a statutory obligation to do more (and no-one's explained how they are); or there's something in their contract to suggest they should be taking unusual steps to manage the problem (hint: there isn't, the OP is clueless), then it's the business' fault if the property is dirty and unsafe, not the customer's.

And there's a huge difference in law between the tenant's 'actions', and things they haven't done to address pre-existing issues. You make it sound like they've deliberately harmed the property, when all they've done is not follow a maintenance regime, on their own money, that the LL didn't specify.

Yep. Some people just don't like that, is all.

From the OP:

I've owned my 3 bed Victorian house for 7 years. There was a little bit of damp in the downstairs bay window but nothing serious.

The OP lived in the house for 7 years without serious issues so we can expect that there was nothing wrong with the house. Especially given new windows and a damp proof course. The only thing that's changed is the occupants. Now there's mould. That's a clear indication that the tenants aren't doing something.

The OP also said, on inspection, that the house was cold and they were worried about heating bills. This is of course understandable but UK homes are susceptible to damp and mould if not heated/ventilated.

We need to stop the, "it's all down to the landlord" rhetoric as it's not 100% down to the landlord but both parties

The tenants will be under contractural obligation to maintain the property. This should be enough. I see this time again but if I see any mould in my own home I'll make a mild bleach solution and wipe down. I'm amazed people just live with it. By all means take a photo but why live with it on the walls. That's definitely not maintaining a property.

My tenants also have a heating and ventilation clause, which includes trickle vents being open. But I lived with mould for 10 years and ironically solved it with a PIV unit when I rented it out (along with double glazing).

Yes, she should certainly get some proper advice and has been advised to do so several times.

OP says she's only rented her house out, and for the first time, just a few weeks ago (since end of August /beginning of September).

It's already been suggested this is a baiting thread, and as it's been asked in 'Am I Being Unreasonable' section. However, I think it's an odd choice to ask on Mumsnet what to do, especially when contracts were freshly signed just a few weeks ago. And while there have been a comparatively huge number of landlords and housing officers posting on this thread <cynical 🤔>. It's probably better to get some professional advice.

She didn’t say there was mould, she said there was a little bit of damp. Completely different. It’s usual to have a little bit of damp in bay windows, it’s usually from the outside (roof of the bay) rather than rising damp.

Came here to say this. If they don't have the heating on at least at a low level they are causing damp/mould which is damaging your property. They need to understand that heating the house is an act of maintenance, not a luxury.

The heating doesn't need to be up very high, mine is set at about 16°C and my house is never warm but it's also not cold, or damp. It's more economical and efficient to have heating on low throughout the day than to only blast it for half an hour or so once or twice a day.

The tenants have the heating on, OP wants them to turn the heat up. Can’t believe the number of posters missing this.

We have a Victorian house and just discovered dry rot in the bay window of the living room last week!! Half our sitting room and hall is being ripped out as I write this and it will cost us a fortune to fix! If there are signs of mould I would definitely keep a close eye. The bay in our house is quite far away from a radiator so we are thinking of putting another one in on the adjacent wall.

Sadly, as the landlord you are entirely responsible for getting rid of / properly treating any mould or damp immediately. Mould is absolutely perilous for health and it’s treated very seriously in the courts.

We actually took legal action against our uni landlord as I got seriously sick from mould (repeat bronchitis) and they refused to treat it, it was absolutely all over my bedroom walls. I ended up taking legal action and getting all my rent paid back to me plus damages.

HOWEVER! It sounds like they are not taking due care of the property. So if I were you I would firstly treat the mould as you legally must - this also gives you a good place to be should it go to court etc, as you have done due diligence around providing a safe rental. But I would secondly look at your contract with them and see if there is anything written around basic expected upkeep of the property. I would probably find a decent solicitor who specialises in landlord rights to advise you.

If you can’t get them out on those grounds then you’ll just have to wait until the contract is up, give them notice and get them out.

For the next tenants I would write it into the contract clearly that it’s a term of rental that they must keep the house dry, warm and well ventilated and that the heating has to be on in order to protect the property and pipes etc.

They simply cannot expect an old house to be damp/mould free if they have it cold- as condensation simply builds up from just breathing! Let alone washing/cooking/showering etc. If they can’t afford to heat a property they are renting, then they can’t afford your property - it’s that simple really. It’s a basic expectation and by not doing it they are causing damage to your property.

It’s a really shit situation and I feel sorry for you, but I think sadly for these tenants you just need to stick to the book for now- fix the issues immediately, but then try to get them out! And then rewrite your contract.

Lots of places have serious contracts with tons of caveats, so don’t be afraid to get it put down in a contract next time.

Yep. The OP refers to them 'turn[ing] the heating up'. It's implicit in that that the heating is already on.

Also, unless anyone hasn't noticed, it's not even cold outside yet. The Shelter link that someone's posted above suggests tenants should ensure properties are heated to at least 15 degrees. I don't know where the OP is but, where I am, the outside temperature has only really dropped below that in the last couple of weeks or so. We put the heating on for the first time last week so it sounds like the tenants are already doing more than necessary to keep the house warm.

I owned a period property, and never had mould issues, but then all the windows were sash windows and the property was able to breath. It was also frigging freezing and I thank my lucky stars I have moved elsewhere and do not now have to fund the heating of this property. However I never heated it to a high degree. Only a couple of hours morning and in the evening to no more than 19.

The reality is that they likely cannot afford the heating, but this is unlikely to be an isolated incident with likely most people you take on as tenants in a similar situation. I've yet to put my heating on properly this year due to being terrified of rising costs.

In my opinion double glazing is often a huge mistake in these older properties. However you should have a ventilation clause in your tenancy agreement, as most standard templates include this. This will mean they should keep the windows open to try and combat the issue of damp.

However I'd be surprised if black mould is occurring from poor ventilation/heating over this short period, so perhaps you need to take them seriously and get someone out to come and take a look. There could be another issue.

It’s a really shit situation and I feel sorry for you, but I think sadly for these tenants you just need to stick to the book for now- fix the issues immediately, but then try to get them out! And then rewrite your contract.

So stick to the book for now - but break the law and fuck them at the earliest safe opportunity.

This is why lots of people fucking hate amateur landlords.

This is why tenants are terrified to report any maintenance issues to their landlords because
a) the landlord will assume they damaged the property
b) even if the landlord grudgingly agrees later that the tenant didn’t damage the property, how fucking dare they forget their place and complain causing the landlord to have to pay to maintain their property
c) so, revenge evict the tenants as soon as possible.

And the number of posters who think that tenants are legally obligated to maintain a property is laughable. No they’re not. The law says that landlords are required to maintain any property they rent to tenants. And the law then warns tenants not to do any DIY or arrange for any trades to do DIY on their own because then they are liable if the landlord doesn’t like the work done. Many tenancy agreements don’t let you change the garden landscaping, hang a picture on the wall, paint walls, change appliances, replace flooring. You need permission for everything.

Eg. Ivy growing up the front of a house has reached the roofline and in danger of going under roof tiles, causing roof leaks. Tenant tells landlord this Ivy is an issue- that’s where their legal obligation begins and ends..they are required to tell landlord of any issues in a timely fashion and try and mitigate impact. That’s it.

Tenant CANNOT pull ivy off themselves or arrange for it to be removed, they have to inform the LL and give landlord reasonable time to arrange. If that fails, then tenants are supposed to just live with it and update landlord as the condition worsens. Only if the condition becomes a health and safety violation can the tenant go to the council for enforcement for the landlord to actually do something.

Absolutely. The majority of landlords and tenants are probably fine but some of these landlords give them a bad name. Advising people to break the law!

I know! It's even in the thread title, just in case there was any doubt

Is it not covered in the lease agreement that they have to maintain the property to a suitable temperature to avoid damage?
just like keeping air vents clear and light bulbs in working order?!

we can evict our tenants if they let a light bulb not be replaced for 72 hours and don’t turn the water off at the mains if they go away for more than 48 hours!!

that said we did have a damp issue in a back bedroom of a Victoria terrace because a teenager had a tank of turtles/terrapins (in water) and had sealed up the vents in the double glazed frames.
we replastered, re insulated and told the tenant if it happened again they’d have to pay the £2k bill for redoing the work again !

they are long term tenants, so we let them have pets, but the tank has been moved to the better ventilated dining room rather than a teenage boys bedroom !

check your tenancy agreement IN DETAIL and make sure you write pointing out this could be prevented by properly using the heating.
the damage maybe done and it will be your responsibility to repair. But make sure the on going DAILY maintenance/use is their responsibility to not cause damage.

From 2025, all rental homes are expected to reach a minimum EPC rate of C (previously E). My advice would be for the OP to start taking this into consideration ASAP, checking to see what the property is at now and how it can be improved… rather than blaming the tenants for not being able to afford to run the heating… if your home isn’t efficient in the first place, it makes them hard to heat and retain the heat, this costing more. What are they charging in rent? A fair rent price, or have they taken advantage of the extortionate, competitive (yet bizarrely achievable in the landlord’s favour) market rental prices?

The reality is that they likely cannot afford the heating, but this is unlikely to be an isolated incident with likely most people you take on as tenants in a similar situation

Mmm, the people telling OP to boot them out don't seem to have given this much consideration. Certainly there's a shortage of rental properties at the moment, but is there a surplus of tenants willing and able to pay for the heating needed to best maintain a period property with existing damp, in a spiralling cost of living crisis? OP hasn't given the necessary level of detail about the local market and prices for people to be making these assumptions. Quite optimistic of them.

we can evict our tenants if they let a light bulb not be replaced for 72 hours and don’t turn the water off at the mains if they go away for more than 48 hours!!

Many house insurances don't cover you if you don't turn the water off, ours does but we always turn it off anyway

Its not part of maintaining a property, the tenant is responsible for reasonable care of a property:

“C4.1 The Tenant must take reasonable care of the Property, any items listed in the inventory and the Common Parts (if any). This includes (but is not limited to):
(a) taking reasonable steps to keep the Property adequately ventilated and heated so as to prevent damage from condensation;
b) taking reasonable steps to prevent frost damage occurring to any pipes or other installations in the Property, provided the pipes and other installations were adequately insulated at the start of the Tenancy; and
(c) disposing of all rubbish in an appropriate manner and at the appropriate time.

Guidance Note: Tenant’s obligation to take reasonable care of the property
There is a legal duty on tenants to avoid, or repair, wilful or negligent damage caused by the tenant, the tenant’s family members or guests and to do the minor acts necessary to keep the property in a reasonable state. This would include jobs such as changing light-bulbs, unblocking sinks (where the blockage has been caused by the tenant’s waste) and doing other little jobs around the property that a reasonable tenant would do. This is known as the duty to behave in a tenant-like manner. Clause C4.1 lists some specific things which it is particularly important for tenants to do in order to prevent damage to a property.

C4.3 The Tenant must notify the Landlord as soon as reasonably possible about any repairs that are needed to the Property or to any items listed on the inventory for which the Landlord is responsible (see clause D3).

D3.1 In accordance with section 11 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 (repairing obligations in short leases) the Landlord shall:
a) keep in repair the structure and exterior of the Property (including drains, external pipes, gutters and external windows);
(b) keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the Property for the supply of water, gas and electricity and for sanitation (including basins, sinks, baths and sanitary conveniences, but not other fixtures, fittings and appliances for making use of the supply of water, gas or electricity); and
(c) keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the Property for space heating and heating water.

Guidance Note: Landlord’s repairing obligations.

A landlord must ensure that the property they let is fit for human habitation according to the terms of the Homes (Fitness for Human Habitation) Act 2018 at the outset and throughout the tenancy. The landlord’s repairing obligations under the tenancy are contained in section 11 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 and the key parts of section 11 have been included in the agreement for ease of reference. These cannot be limited or restricted by anything in a tenancy agreement. Section 11 makes the landlord responsible for repairing (not improving) the structure and the exterior of the property (e.g. the walls, the roof, the steps and windows) and the installations for the supply of gas, electricity, water, and for sanitation, heating and hot water. This includes installations such as water and gas pipes, electrical wiring, boilers, water tanks, radiators, sinks, baths and toilets. Repairs must be carried out within a reasonable time of the landlord being notified of or becoming aware of the need for repair.
The landlord’s obligation does not extend to re-building the property if it is destroyed or to repairs for which the tenant is responsible because the tenant has failed to take reasonable care of the property (see clause C4.1). Section 11 also specifies that when deciding the standard of repair required, the age, character, prospective life of the property and the locality in which it is situated must be taken into account.
Obligation to maintain common parts: If the property forms part of a building and the landlord retains control of other parts of the building, the landlord is under a legal obligation to take reasonable care to keep the parts retained in repair so as to prevent injury to the tenant or damage to the property.
Under this agreement (see clause D3.3 below), the landlord is also responsible for keeping in repair any appliances which are supplied by the landlord and listed on the inventory.
In addition to these contractual obligations, if the property contains hazards or is otherwise unsafe or unhealthy the landlord may also be required to carry out works to the property under other legislation; for instance, the housing health and safety rating system in Part 1 of the Housing Act 2004. Further guidance for landlords is available in the guidance called ‘The Housing Health and Safety Rating System: Guidance for Landlords and Property-related Professionals’ which can be found at www.gov.uk/government/publications/housing-health-and- safety-rating-system-guidance-for-landlords-and-property-related-professionals.

It will be a good thing when the new EPC rules come in and take all these crappy houses out of the rental market

I just had a look at a tenancy contract and this one in relevant part says
Tenant to " ensure that the Property is properly ventilated throughout the Tenancy Period and report to the Landlord's Agent
any damage that has been or is being caused to the structure of the Property by lack of ventilation and if the
damage is caused by the Tenant's default or his invitees advise the Landlord of the damage so that it can be
repaired or replaced by the Landlord at the Tenant's expense."