AIBU to expect the tenants to turn the heating up?

[LadyMaine]

I've owned my 3 bed Victorian house for 7 years. There was a little bit of damp in the downstairs bay window but nothing serious.

I moved for work at end of August this year and rented it out. Within a few weeks the tenants (3 adults & dog) started complaining of damp and mould. When I went to inspect the house was very cold.
They said they are worried about high heating bills. I do understand this but have told them they really need to turn the heating up.

The boiler is in full working order as are the extractor fans in the kitchen and bathroom.
I installed new double glazed windows throughout when I bought the house. It also has a damp course installed.

Now they are complaining that there is black mould and that one of the tenants' asthma is getting worse.
What can I do to get them to turn the heating up?

YANBU. I am in the position of being a tenant and a landlord. I live in an old house and rent one out in another city. The amount of tenants who don't seem to realise that you need to heat an old house /air it out etc is shocking. Like don't dry your clothes on a maiden in a cold airless house and expect there not to be mould from condensation. btw if anyone has a persistent problem, anti-condensation paint works wonders (NOT anti-mould paint). It raises the temp on the cold wall.

So much anti- landlord stuff eventually there won’t be any rentals available. I rented out and I don’t have a mortgage on the property, it was in pristine condition when I rented it out. Can’t believe how terrible the tenant was - he caused damp in a house that had never suffered from damp - draping wet clothes everywhere and windows tightly closed. I had it sorted but he continued to do the same thing. Anyway I am going to sell as it has totally put me off. A lot of parents will be getting their adult children back home if they can’t find anywhere to rent and can’t afford to buy. Very short sighted the changes coming in affecting landlords. When I got people in to do a deep clean she said the good landlords seem to get the bad tenants and vice versa.

I used to work for a housebuilder and the amount of people who used to ring in complaining about areas of mould developing several years later. All due to the new owners not allowing the house to breathe.
Whether it's a new house or an older property, whoever lives there needs to understand that mould will always develop if it is given the perfect conditions.

Low temperature heating will drive condensation out if you open a couple of windows in the house. Even a short time will help. Leave them on the latch on a sunny day. Get in the habit of ventilating whenever possible.
Invest in a dehumidifier or a Karcher window vac for your tenants. There are even small windowsill condensation boxes containing special granules which soak up moisture.
Encourage them to dry washing outside if possible.
All these things will make a difference.

Yes, you should sell up. If everyone does that, it will drive house prices right down and many more people will be able to afford to buy.

you don’t have to deal with them, and vice Versa.
Everyone’s a winner!

When I got people in to do a deep clean she said the good landlords seem to get the bad tenants and vice versa.

That is just anecdotal, though. Obviously!

My parents have had the same tenants for years, and they've been fortunate there have been no problems at all. The tenants look after the house very well it would seem, and any repairs are dealt with swiftly.

They didn't buy to let. It's more a case of not wanting to sell my grandmother's house yet.

Definitely pay for their heating bill and ask them to have heating turned up.

Just remove them and get tenants who will heat the home.

I am a landlord, just one small property in good repair with no obvious mould. It's an older listed property, so no double glazing but well fitting windows and no obvious damp problem.
When the flat was converted a small, very low wattage extractor fan was put in the ceiling to keep air moving throughout the flat so that it didn't get damp. We provided a washer with a condensing dryer.
One couple moved in and started to complain about damp and mould, we found that they were drying the washing inside on radiators with the windows tight shut and had turned off the extractor - it was made clear to them before they took on the tenancy that it should be running all the time. We gave them a couple of dehumidifiers but they refused to use them although the cost would have been very low. Fortunately they left after a year or we would have had to ask them to leave - it cost us a lot to have the flat fully cleaned and properly decorated after they left.
I should add that we've had only had four tenants in the 12 years that we have had the flat and that the others have all been very happy and the flat has had no damp or mould.

It's quite possible that your tenants are not using the extractors because they think that this will make the property colder. Many buildings insurance policies say that thermostats should not be set below certain temperature (even if the property is empty) and you can probably find out what this is from your policy.
I think that you should ask them to leave, and make sure that any new lease contains information about properly ventilating and heating the property. It really is not your fault if they had not considered the cost of running the heating before they rented.

Tennant can’t afford to heat and air the property meaning they can’t afford to live there.
Not heating and airing a property is abusing the property.

The main problem is it doesn’t sound like you can afford to be a landlord if you didn’t get the mould sorted before they moved in. The second problem is I don’t see how you’re going to magic more money into your tenant’s pockets either. Being mad at them won’t fix anything so like a lot of people/investors right now you’re just going to have to ride it out.

i live in a old small stone house, that has stone window sills, the sills remain cold in the winter and creates a zone where the cold/ warm air meets= wet windows and surround that very quickly creates mould. in winter the windows are wiped down every day and bleach sprayed very frequently. If this wasn't done daily mould would very quickly grow. but i understand this is what needs to be done to prevent a damp problem getting hold. The cottage was built around 1650 and the stone is 2 foot thick so rebuilding/ replacing not an option. I dont want to live in mould and i dont want mould to damage the property, so i clean frequently. I know this isn't what OP was referring too, but just made me think... surely anybody would prefer to wipe/ spray bleach/ open windows (if can't afford heating) around and live mould free, but to expect a tenant to frequently clean as frequently like I do fair/unfair expectation?? If there isn't a problem with OP house TBC eg the pointing and it is just condensation, I know not ideal, but could OP offer to pop in 1x week or pay for a cleaner? to spot clean these condensed areas before the plaster is damaged and mould gets hold.

@FarrahLondon

Farrah, what a nightmare for you with those lying, irresponsible tenants. Glad you got it sorted and got them out of your property. Good luck with the new ones.

Agree.
It's immoral to absue someone else's property like that. After being given the benefit of the doubt and permitted to live there.

This is the problem with alot of tenants. They don't want/can't afford to heat the house.
But no matter what anyone thinks, an older house needs heat.

OP has stated the condition of the house before it was rented out, and while she admits to a small patch of mould, she wasn't fighting it throughout house or in various rooms. And she would do something if she lived there.... put the heating on!

Tenants are definitely not worthless. Good tenants are worth their weight in gold. Tenants who don't want to/can't afford pay the costs that come with running a house, however, can end up becoming a nightmare. And then they can move out and leave the landlord to repair the damage, costing more than they ever paid in rent.

The landlord and her property also need to be respected.... its a 2 way street.

OP, I don't think there's alot you can do, unfortunately. You can't force them to put heating on more often, as is needed by your house. This did happen us at one point in a house we used to rent out. We could do nothing until they moved out.

Not really an ideal property to rent out tbh. Older properties really need a lot more thought and care by the people living there. My mum rents out a flat and the bathroom ceiling collapsed partially because the tenants never bothered to open a window or tell her the extraction fan was broken, luckily her insurance covered it.

I once lived in a house share where mould would appear on a wall if furniture was pushed against it and there wasn’t enough warm air venting past it. The land lady had a document from an apparent damp expert saying that there was no fault causing the mould and that the room would have to be sufficiently heated and aired to prevent it. Basically just a way for the landlady to say that we had to heat the property and that it wasn’t her fault. I am not sure how legit or legal this was but it seemed fair enough.

And now owning an older property myself I wouldn’t like to think what state it would be in the winter if hadn’t had the heating on for months on end, so I can certainly sympathise with your POV OP.

But that's not how it works though is it ?.anyone thst rents a period property should expect to heat and ventilate St a low level otherwise these things happen. If you don't know that or can't afford that rent a new build that doesn't need heating. Simple

As the landlord you are legally liable for repairs and after recent incident involving death of toddler because of mould this is going to be tightened up.
Your only option is to pay for the heating if you don’t want to be hauled off to court. Renting property is no longer for novices

Mould is a simple thing to fix but a complex issue, as this thread has highlighted.

A landlord can put everything in place but a tenant must be diligent and do what's required to keep a property in good condition. It's not as simple as you're suggesting (unfairly).

There are undoubtedly poor landlords and the case you're referring to relates to social housing and neglect from the local authority. Looking at the footage I was disgusted that housing professionals could look at that house and not do anything. The lines of communication and process were abysmal and unforgivable for a system we pay our taxes for. The property wasn't fit for purpose as things weren't working (fan) and there was inadequate ventilation. The local authority needs to be prosecuted.

However this is a million miles away from the OP's situation where heating and ventilation is readily available and possible. In this case the landlord isn't wholly responsible for the tenants inaction.

I would buy them a humidifier to use in the room near the bay window - they apparently don't cost alot to use.

Mould is very high

Mould is currently very high on the agenda of issues landlords are expected to sort out - even if caused by tenants not using hearing enough.
I'd possibly invest in getting the mould professionally treated/cleaned and anti-mould paint applied plus setting out formally to the tenants they must heat and ventilate the property and use the tumble dryer not dry washing inside. Get it in writing to them ASAP.

And I meant buy them a dehumidifier to use in the toom with the mould in.

This …. When I bought a property in my late 20s , we developed mould despite adequate heating. My mum told me to open windows regularly which I thought was ridiculous letting all the heating out. I dried laundry inside , had hot steamy baths etc.

People do not understand that both heating and ventilation are needed. It is not taught anywhere.

Exactly this. The OP is now a (novice) businesswomen who is currently in breach of H&S legislation; is risking a whole world of shit; and is expecting her clients to bail her out with their own money!

Depressing how may people think BTL is simply a licence to print money, and are desperate to blame their cash cows tenants when things go to shot.

Yes, this is the right approach.

You have cash reserves in the business for this kind of contingency, don't you OP?

Prople are quite misrepresentating the case on here in few posts.
There were multiple failings by LA and HA.
This case is not to be used to force landlords to pay for heating. It is to be used as case law for similar serious failings as LA and HA did. Once you start putting "I can't afford heating really" on a landlord as their fault, you are running slippery slope to everything else.
If you cannot afford to move whole house, do what many of us had to do and move to sharedhouse.

Shelter identify tenants’ responsibilities in terms of heating and ventilation in relation to condensation, which is a big factor in causing mould. I find it odd that so many people seem to believe that it’s not up to tenants to treat their homes responsibly..
england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/damp_and_mould_in_rented_homes
They also point out the landlord’s responsibilities with regard to other causes of damp or disrepair leading to mould. I’ve never been a landlord, but as a housing worker, I’ve visited properties with no sign of mould adjoining one with serious mould and damp, caused by condensation, which was due to - lack of ventilation, lack of moderate heat, not using extractors, blocking vents. The fabric of the building was fine.

The government have allocated £400 to every household to reduce our fuel costs, £66 a month over six months. The very poorest have had half of the £600+ COL payment and will receive the other half very soon if not had it already. State pensioners and other benefit recipients will get an extra £300 on top of their regular Winter Fuel allowance. Some of that extra money should be going towards heating costs. It also costs nothing to mop up excess moisture from windows, lots of us do it as a matter of course.