To be worried DD doesn't sleep enough?

[Chamonix]

This is driving me mad every single night. DD (just turned 5) falls asleep every single night around 9:30 pm, then she wakes up at random times in the morning (for school), sometimes at 6:30am, sometimes 7am, sometimes 8am. Then goes to be at 9:30 pm, regardless of the time she wakes up in the morning. So she sleeps around 10 - 10.5 hours a night on average.

We have a bed time routine which starts at 7pm (shower/bath, book reading, brush teeth), switch off lights around 8:15 (she won't do it any earlier), then I have to lie next to her until she is asleep. I'm exhausted!! And I get really angry at the fact that she lies there talking, tossing, turning, wide awake. How can she go on like this for hours???!!

She is very active during the day, on some days she does after school activities (gymnastics, drama) all in the hope that she will get tired. Occasionally she is, butmost of the time she isn't! All her friends of her age are asleep by 8:30 pm, some even earlier.

I suspect she is tired during the day at school and I'm sure long term this will impact her, but she sort of wakes up in the afternoon and is wide awake at bed time.

AIBU to think that this is not normal at this age? I'm happy to take any advice/suggestions to sort this out as I'm exhausted. I can't do anything in the evening as by the time she is asleep I'm ready for bed.

10 hours is not unusual at all at that age.

Is it not?! Some of her friends still nap at weekends and then go to bed by 9 pm.

She dropped her naps at the age of 2 and now only falls asleep during the day when she is very very sick.

I also have a 5 year old. Not sure if I can give advice but my daughter goes to be between 7-8pm, we go up after bedtime stories on CBeebies, do our night routine, bath, teeth and then story read by me or her dad. Then she gets in bed and we allow her to take one of her reading books to bed. When she’s read it to herself she rolls over and goes to sleep. She then will wake between 6-7am. She hasn’t napped since she was about 2 either, I wish 😂!
my DD does tap and swimming during the week and it takes he longer to fall asleep on them nights for some reason 🤷🏼‍♀️

I dont think its unusual. 2yo ds goes to bed around 9.15pm every night but usually takes til 10pm for him to fall asleep then he's awake by 7ish in the mornings. He only naps about an hour in the day.
Some kids just need less sleep, however I'm always insanely jealous of hearing that some peoples dc sleep 7-7 and nap 2 hours

I'm always insanely jealous of hearing that some peoples dc sleep 7-7 and nap 2 hours Grin

I know exactly how you feel, one of her friends apparently goes to bed by herself at 7 pm, wakes up at 7 am. No fuss, no drama. Apparently her sister is more like DD but still asleep by 8:30pm. I get really jealous 😩

I would start by telling her you are no longer going to lie in the bed with her until she falls asleep. She is old enough to understand that adults have responsibilities which you can use as a reason, such as laundry or the dishwasher etc but more like sitting with a lovely cup of tea or coffee and enjoying the peace and quiet. Plus my children sort of understood that Mum and Dad had lives before the children came along and we wanted to be together in the evening as we hadn't seen each other all day.

I have one child who falls asleep immediately and another who takes 30 minutes to fall asleep. They both slept in very dark rooms to help them sleep. I never stayed with them to sleep. Your presence may be what keeps her awake.

I also find it interesting that you use the phrase "switch off lights around 8:15 (she won't do it any earlier)" she is 5, she doesn't get to dictate what time her light goes off. If she has only just started school then she may well be unsettled from that but I would stop the lying with her. You need time to yourself.

My 2 year old sleeps 9.5 hours a night and it's within the range of normal for her age. Sure, she still naps but if she sleeps 10.5 hours a night when she's five I'll be winning. This idea that all kids should be sleeping 12 hours a night is just a myth (perpetrated by those lucky parents of sleepy kids)

There is an article in the Times today about treating adult insomnia which may have some useful information, I can’t link it because it’s behind a paywall. One thing, in fact the first point was that you must get up at the same time every day. So if you waken her at, say, 7am every day you might get some better routine going in the evening.

I would also absolutely stop the lying beside her at night, it’s a terrible long term habit. I’d wean her onto some very dull audio books and be resolute about the changes. You need your evening and staying up so late isn’t ok for you.

My 5 yo goes to bed earlier at 7.15/7.30, but also wakes up earlier (6-6.30, more often 6). If yours is waking quite a bit later most mornings she is probably getting enough sleep.

If you keep them active to over tired them it can make it impossible to calm down and turn off. A bit like us we are really tired think we will sleep well and can't. I'd try to bring everything forward maybe by 5 or 10 minutes a night. Not everyone reacts well to bedtime baths so that maybe something to change.
Have the story in bed then sit on the floor next to her but no talking or eye contact after a few days you should be able to just sit without laying her back down....never speak. It may take over an hour the first week but it does work.
10 to 13 hours is normal at this age.
The mistake is to think because they are bouncing off the walls they are not tiered when this is being over tiered.

Stop lying with her. It's only worth it if it works and it clearly doesn't.

So do you lie with her for over an hour every evening? First priority is to stop this, as it's not helping either of you. Perhaps phase it out with some kind of rewards/incentives?

If you want her to go to sleep earlier then you need to wake her up earlier in the mornings consistently to help alter her body clock.

It seems like your bedtime routine is way too long, start it later but make it shorter.

My son is the same age and typically sleeps 8 until 6 - 6:30.

Yes, I know lying with her is not ok at this age. I tried to wean her off many times but it really unsettled her, she cries, screams, gets up after me and so on 😧.

She is really independent otherwise, I could drop her off in any unfamiliar place (like a new class) and she totally fine, but bed time is something else.

Ar some point though, you are actually going to have to do something about this. If it worked, fine! Crack on! But it isn't.

I'm glad to hear that 10 hours of sleep is not very unusual.

I think some children just need less sleep than others, just like adults. My dd is 8, dropped her nap and 2 and never struggled! She now only need roughly 9-10 hours a night and will happily get up for school at 7.30 after going to sleep at 10pm, she never ever says she's tired or acts tired!

My ds is 14 and has always needed a lot of sleep, he napped until starting school and was regularly in bed by 6.30pm! Even now he hates sleepovers because he can't stand the lack of sleep and you will always fine him in bed by 10om on a school night which is entirely his choice!

If she's not showing signs that she's struggling then she's fine!

10 hours of sleep sounds quite usual. Remember there is a range of "normal".

I think your actual issue is that you don't get an evening as you're staying with her for too long. I agree with others that you tell her you will read a story and then she has to stay in bed until morning. If she gets up, take her back without making eye contact or talking to her. You might want to combine with a reward chart (if she's that way inclined, reward chart on its own might do the trick).

@Chamonix She is your child, it’s fine if you want to lay with her in the evening, clearly it does work as a calming strategy as she’s calm when you do it and distressed when you don’t.

Its your decision don’t let ransoms on the internet tell you how to raise your child.

Take the pressure off her to actually sleep

Up to her room at 7pm, 30mins of reading/chatting, then get her set up with a lamp, some books, even sticker books or pen and paper, her soft toys, and say goodnight.

She needs to appreciate that there is a time of day that she needs to go to bed. Sleep - that can come when she decides to put down the book or Teddy and roll over, but she has to be in her room without you by 7.30.

I don't know any 6 year old that still naps, outside perhaps illness?

My dd was like this.

By the time she was about 7 she was clearly an owl. Dh is as was his dm. It’s hereditary. In the holidays she’d switch to going later and sleeping later. Left to her self, she’d have gone to bed by about midnight and woken up about 11.

Shes struggled all her life to go to sleep early. As a baby she wasn’t interested in food or milk in the morning, ( until about 12.00 midday)

She used to come alive about 8:00 pm. It was a real pain.

Shes 16 now and still the same

Where have you got that this is a 6yo who naps?

The OP has a 5yp who dropped their nap at 2yo.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz
Okay age wrong, but OPs second post says this:

Is it not?! Some of her friends still nap at weekends and then go to bed by 9 pm.