To be worried DD doesn't sleep enough?

[Chamonix]

This is driving me mad every single night. DD (just turned 5) falls asleep every single night around 9:30 pm, then she wakes up at random times in the morning (for school), sometimes at 6:30am, sometimes 7am, sometimes 8am. Then goes to be at 9:30 pm, regardless of the time she wakes up in the morning. So she sleeps around 10 - 10.5 hours a night on average.

We have a bed time routine which starts at 7pm (shower/bath, book reading, brush teeth), switch off lights around 8:15 (she won't do it any earlier), then I have to lie next to her until she is asleep. I'm exhausted!! And I get really angry at the fact that she lies there talking, tossing, turning, wide awake. How can she go on like this for hours???!!

She is very active during the day, on some days she does after school activities (gymnastics, drama) all in the hope that she will get tired. Occasionally she is, butmost of the time she isn't! All her friends of her age are asleep by 8:30 pm, some even earlier.

I suspect she is tired during the day at school and I'm sure long term this will impact her, but she sort of wakes up in the afternoon and is wide awake at bed time.

AIBU to think that this is not normal at this age? I'm happy to take any advice/suggestions to sort this out as I'm exhausted. I can't do anything in the evening as by the time she is asleep I'm ready for bed.

Her friends are all just under 5. All at Reception.

Why are you lying next to her until she falls asleep? Of course she isn’t going to sleep any earlier, she probably sees it as bonus time with you. If you could put her in bed at 8:30 or something, and let her read in bed for 20 minutes then lights off. Obviously, she’ll kick off at first but you need to stop laying in bed with her. No wonder you feel knackered .

Perhaps teach her to read quickly so she can read to herself every night after you've done a bit. Or let her listen to an audiobook in bed for a bit after you've done the bedtime routine. But I wouldn't stay with her. Just make it clear that she knows you're in the house so she feels safe and she can sleep.

She's going to scream get up after you etc. Because she's used to you being there and she knows when she does it you give in so next time will cry and kick off longer....that's why I suggested a form of gradual withdrawal you tend to feel less guilty.....but you have to be commited to sticking with it.

i really get that kids need diff amounts of sleep but i also think there’s a balance with what you allow/ accept as the norm. I don’t think any 5yr
old should be napping either!
Stop lying down with her, if it takes her an hour to go to sleep, start bedtime earlier. A 5yr old can’t tell the time- lights off latest at 8 at that age.

I wouldn't suddenly leave her, I would have her bedroom door open and potter around upstairs putting laundry away and tidying and regularly popping in and giving her a kiss and reassuring her you are there.

Sorry I haven’t read all so this may have been said but I would say you need to wake her at exactly the same time every morning for a week- earlier than she usually does, around 6.15/30.

then put down at exactly the same
time every night, again earlier than she usually does, aiming for sleep by 7.30 for example. 2 stories, tell me 3 things about your day then lights out. Every single night the same. Eventually this will realign her body clock- and it happens quite quickly if you’re consistent. I am absolutely no expert, but my 5 year is asleep by 7.15pm in the winter. We do have early starts (6.15am) but I’d take those early mornings when she’s generally quite chilled and will watch a bit of tv in my bed or read over fraught evenings as it’s just exhausting isn’t it.

I don’t necessarily think laying with her is the end of the world, she won’t need you to do that forever, and if it’s earlier in the evening it’s more manageable. But I do agree with the comments that it might be your presence actually encouraging her to fight sleep.

My just-turned 5 year old is in bed by 7:30pm, sometimes she goes straight to sleep, sometimes she’s still awake at 8:30/9pm. Never sleeps past 7 whatever time she goes to sleep, and she never seems any the worse for wear after a run of 8:30pm-6:30am nights, so 10 hours isn’t necessarily a cause for concern. Must say I don’t know any 5 year olds still napping, mine dropped all naps at 2 so I’m very jealous!

DD is perfectly happy lying in her bed by herself though so it means we have our evenings, even if it takes her a while to go to sleep. It must be hard if you have to lie there the whole time.

@Chamonix
I already said I read the age wrong.
I don't know any almost 5 year olds that nap at weekends? Even barely any four year olds that regularly do it.
Ten hours sleep seems normal at this age to me

Thank you all for your advice. We had an easier evening today, she fell asleep a few mins before 9pm. That's a win for me.

You probably need to start the bedtime routine earlier and be much firmer. DS is nearly 3. He also didn’t sleep until 9 and refused to brush his teeth before 8, but his resistance was a symptom of tiredness. I basically gave him his dinner early & herded up upstairs like a cat, put white noise on, and made him sleep earlier. After two weeks bedtime at 7 became a habit.

All perfectly normal but please don't do the thing of lying with her until she falls asleep. My brother and SiL have an 8 year old they still have to do this with. Falling asleep on her own has now become a massive ominous big thing for her now. Shes tried to have sleepovers with her little school friend staying over but my SiL gets woken up by little friend coming downstairs at 9pm saying "XXXXXX's Mum, XXXXXX is crying and saying she can't do it. Can you come?". Poor Niece is so upset with herself but the ordeal of trying to go to sleep without a parent is just too overwhelming.

You need to get that bit sorted now. You're saying you 'have' to but you don't. It's going to be painful for both of you, but it needs sorting sooner rather than later.