To ask is there ever an acceptable reason to MN’ers for a man to leave a wife?

[SavoirFlair]

I’m fully prepared to get absolutely flamed for this thread, such is the understandable bias on here from us women.

But I’m wondering - once a man has children with a woman, and something fundamentally goes wrong after time (they don’t evolve together, they fall out of love, the sex ends with little chance of it coming back for one person, they argue to the point of destruction of a loving family environment)

…then is it ever acceptable to MN’ers if a man says “I’m sorry, I can’t do this” and leaves the family?

granted I get there is a crucial part missing here - the man has to have the intent to want to see his family and raise his children, have proper access, want to be a part of their lives and co-parent with respect and understanding .

However I’m often on threads on here where “LTB!” is sounded with regular frequency to the point it’s become cliche here. Does the same count for the “bastards” who have had enough? Can they ever leave?

Some notes for any of the obtuse folk on here who like to pick holes :

1. This is not a ‘reverse’ (ugh)
2. I am not a man
3. Cheating is always wrong. I’m talking about a man leaving without another partner lined up, when a relationship irrevocably breaks down
4. If this thread takes off and you’re the Daily Mail, I abhor your website which tears down women and encourages them to be catty about body types. Horrible ‘newspaper’

I was told my partner was definitely awful and horrible for leaving and that there must be more to it (in fact I definitely must have been the OW) despite the fact that his ex wanted to split up with him. Because she fell out of love and found him 'a bit boring'. I was also told he is the absolute worst for wanting/having 50:50 care of the children (obviously if he didn't he'd be an asshole for not fighting for that). Oh and I must be secretly plotting to steal her children because I had previously lost my own baby.

In reality he is wonderful. All three of us adults get on really well, respect each other and they are both amazing parents to their children. The kids and I have a great relationship. We are about to have another baby and they are thrilled.

What I am saying is that I agree with you MN seems to be an echo chamber of crazy sometimes. But it isn't real life.

Absolutely. As long as he continues to be a good dad and contribute financially. People can leave relationships for any reason.

But men very very rarely leave relationships unless there's another woman. So I suspect your question is moot.

Blended families often are truly awful and purely to suit the adults.

The problem is, whereas women end a relationship fully expecting to continue living with their children, most men walk away from living with their children.

Blended families often are truly awful and purely to suit the adults

This, i know a few people who've been in that sort of set up as a child and most hated it. Most also hid their feelings about it from their parents to a greater or lesser degree.

I think if the woman is a teacher, GP's receptionist or vegan it's probably fine to leave.

Why are you pretending ‘mnetters’ (note, we are all individuals with different opinions. I mean literally, this site only works because we all disagree) think men should stay with their wives? There are loads of threads where men are told it’s by posters it’s ok to leave, such as if the relationship is sexless.

Did people vilify him for wanting 50:50 residency or were they sceptical about how much childcare he would personally be doing during his time?

I'm not making any assumptions about him. I'm just conscious that men will often go for 50:50 so that they can avoid paying maintenance, and then helicopter in various female relatives and partners to do the actual care. Not always, of course, but often enough that it's fair to ask about it.

Both. I was told he was only (at the time) dating me to get free childcare. And then your point above. The fact that his ex-wife, he and I all have the same full time job and the kids do go to childcare as needed with all of us is apparently irrelevant. Also did not matter that he is definitely parenting his children, the mere fact that I too live in the house means that I must be doing all the childrearing.

You're completely misrepresenting the dog thread.

The core of it was that the husband completely refused to take his wife's wishes into consideration and was convinced that she should fall into line with his unilateral decision to get the new, young dog. Additionally he wasn't even pretending he'd take responsibility for the new dog and was expecting his wife to care for the dog alone while he was away on regular trips.

The couple were approaching retirement and didn't have dependant children.

Getting a new young dog would have completely scuppered the couple's retirement plans which included 3 month blocks of travel in south America, which they'd been planning to do specifically once their elderly dog wasn't a factor any more.

The dog thing was what brought a lot of other very fundamental issues to light. As you know if you read the thread.

People who post so disingenuously on one thing make themselves look disingenuous throughout their argument.

I am not pretending anything. As I said to a PP, I am not on here for every post - I may have got the prevailing wind wrong in which case no problem I stand corrected.

what I’m saying is, on here and Relationships, there are so many women posting how devastated they are that a man has left “his family” and “his DCs”. They can’t understand why he would not put them first.

Yet on other threads where the woman is the protagonist about an irritating DH, they are all told “LTB. Now”.

I was trying to introduce perspectives here - is both ways allowed?

@DontGoBreakingMyHeart

I hear you about the damage caused by blended families. I have 3 children with the same father. I’m happy I will only have to coparent with one exhusband. Now I’m a single parent and my focus is on my children. I could drag the ex through the courts and get my fair share. It’s going to cost me my sanity at a time I really need it so I can raise my children. I’ll play nice and go back later in 10 years to get what I’m owed. My income is more than what most households make with two parents working so the impact to the children right now is minimal. They still have a nanny, they still have speech & occupational 3x a week and math tutoring 3x a week. They also see their father just as much, if not more than they did before the pandemic.

I met a guy who seemed nice enough. Dropped him the minute I found out his ex wife has the children in another country and he sees them when they are on school holidays for 1-3 weeks, taking them on holiday or staying in a local resort. He had time to go on a weekend trip with the guys but not go spend a weekend with his children. It doesn’t matter that he paid for school fees, it takes an awful lot more than that to raise children properly. Actions speak louder than words. His children are clearly not his priority. Next.

I didn’t separate to find another man. I separated to provide my children a better childhood which was less chaotic. The ex husband is clearly very autistic but not diagnosed or willing to work on this. It’s a very valid reason for divorce. I also don’t expect to find someone else. If it happens that would be great but they have to make it worth my while and be ok with being 2nd to my children.

I don't think there's a way back from certain things, like abuse or cheating.

However, for something with a blameless root like falling out of love, I think if you're married and/or have children, you have an obligation to try counselling before calling it quits. Just in case it's possible to work it through.

If you don't have the commitment of marriage or kids, I think walking away without fighting for the relationship is still an option.

I have the same views, regardless of gender or who is the high earner. I think when you enter into a marriage contract, if the other person hasn't done anything to break it, you owe it to them to really fight. Even if the relationship still ends, you can part ways knowing there was nothing either of you could have done - that gives you the closure to move on.

I appreciate there's no legal contract with deciding to have kids, but they are the most binding thing you can ever do with a person. Children link you for life. So the same principle applies - in this case, so you can also say to the children that you both tried to make it work, but it wasn't possible. Splitting up a family should not be done lightly.

Really interesting that there’s a thread about a husband leaving and so far all it’s been have been people castigating him, saying he must be having an affair, he’s a shit, and to take all his money.

so yep, when it’s a real life example, on mumsnet men can’t just leave

Can you link? Thanks.

My husband left his first wife because she was having an affair and would not give up the other man. She wouldn't leave the home either so he didn't have much choice left. They didn't have kids though.

If the marriage is over then someone has to leave. There's no other way around that. Where there are children the mother is usually the primary carer so it is logical that the man leaves even if it is the woman who has decided the marriage is over. As long as he still sees the children for contract and supports them financially I think that is acceptable.

Well, you are wrong Dp left a comfy home to divorce his wife. No other party was involved. He sighted disrespect. The process was done and dusted in under 9 months.
He sees his children week on and a week off. He washes their socks and his by the way.

But there is a narrative in society that women who leave are selfish, wrong, should have tried harder to fix the relationship etc.

MN is a female dominated space. Therefore there is a focus on helping women overcome these societal ideas and do what is right for them as a person (/their family) which is not usually staying in a failed relationship.

You do see posters who disapprove of this, they pop up from time to time.

Likewise there is a societal narrative that a man leaving with no specific reason like an affair/abuse is selfish. That will carry on through to MN. MN is not a male dominated space so there is not much time dedicated to changing entrenched male ideas. There would be little point as very little male traffic to read and benefit from it.

I do think that people who in general believe that it is better to end a relationship than keep flogging a dead horse apply that equally to women AND men. But there aren't as many men on here looking for advice or permission to end their relationships.

My dad should have left my mum, instead they stayed in a toxic relationship until we had all left home. It left me with a skewed idea of what a healthy relationship is, and I made several poor decisions along the way.

I think that as it was the 80's her threat of keeping us away from him was very much based in truth, however the reality was that she was often off with her long term AP whilst he was home looking after us, and extremely bitter.

He is a family abandoner if he adandons his family when he leaves his wife. The two do not go hand in hand necessarily. Everyone has a right to leave but a man who shirks all his responsibility for the family he helped to create because he doesn't want to be married to his wife anymore is shit.

A distant female relatively mine left her husband and her two children ( they were about 8 and 10 at the time ) for another man ( a long time ago )
The vitriol she received was worse than any man would have received

I think the gist of the thread has been proven to be true.
There is a multitude of posters that have stated, yes the man can leave but (Insert list of conditions). So no, men, as represented on Mumsnet cannot leave.
As for the claims of offering support, I don't think calling someone's partner a bastard, ranting about the patriarchy or the other 1001 other insults hurled at people's spouses is supportive. It is just a place to sound off and release abuse.

But as a pp said, a woman leaving would receive far more criticism.

While marriages can irretrievably break down, it’s not good to walk away at the drop of a hat when DC are involved. It really isn’t. Why bother to get married in the first place if it means nothing to you?

Of course it is acceptable for anyone to leave a relationship that is dysfunctional or unfulfilling.

I'd hope that people of either sex would consider it very seriously, especially if children are involved, and not to be entirely selfish. But these are very complicated, personal, and painful decisions that everyone has to make for him or her self.

Unfortunately there are always some judgey types who still spout off about "broken homes" and "marriage is a commitment" and are happy to give it in the neck to men OR women to leave a relationship.

Statistically women file for divorce significantly more than men. So women cannot be afraid of criticism, if they are, it's not stopping them.
Personally, I've dated 3 ex-married men, 2 had awful, manipulative game-playing exes. Dp has no issues with his ex, he gets on with her new partner in fact they're collaborating on a project. Everyone just gets on, it's not quite the Brady bunch but it's pretty sane. Leaving his children wasn't easy, however, according to him, the marriage wasn't tenable.