There's too much animosity towards benefit recipients.

[Threadkillacilla]

Any and every flavour of benefit recipient, disabled, pensioner, out of work, low paid, single parent etc etc.
There's a mean and nasty cohort on mumsnet who are vitriolic in their hatred for them all.
What do people want instead of giving people a basic level of existence?
What do they think will happen without benefits?

@Cuppasoupmonster wage driven inflation was the argument used against the introduction of the minimum wage in the first place. Often by large employers of low paid workers such as supermarket chains - they prefer the tax payer to top up the meagre wages they pay. Guess what? It never happened. More discretionary income in the hands of low paid workers seems to have the opposite effect on prices.

I don't believe that poster had direct experience at all. Based on their posts, in particular the first deleted posts, they have a bizarre idea of how assessment and diagnosis takes place. That alone was enough for me to not believe another word they said.

Now, of course people lie, and some get through the cracks, but nobody is getting PIP by filling in a form with no evidence to back it up. There needs to be evidence, that's comes in many shapes but nobody at the DWP is doing a phone assessment, picking up nothing that can be used as evidence and then filling out a report giving a person enough points to qualify for PIP. I do believe people exaggerate their conditions but the idea out for ward by that poster is just plain shit.

But the reason we should believe people who have been through it and know how hard it is over someone who hasn't is quite simple isn't it? If you haven't tried to claim PIP you don't know the same as someone who has about the process.

I agree. It is impossible to verify. But so is the experience of X who says "I'm practically dying and had to jump through hoops and still only get £££"

That's my point.

I think unless X is a complete attention seeker and likes to play the victim, I’d be more inclined to believe their experience of a system they have never had to navigate before.

Besides, I believe there have been several investigations and analyses done by organisations and reputable journalists where evidence has been presented that people have actually died before receiving assistance they absolutely were entitled to due to the labyrinthine nature of the claiming process and the high bar set for eligibility.

Both can be true.

It can be true that people struggle to get the help they need and that others get help they don't.

It's not black and white. (And most people are not talking about PIP when they make these observations but long term health conditions which prevent work .

And if there are sweeping generalisations that are "wrong" we have to ask why? What is leading people to think this? Are they all just evil, prejudiced jealous thickos? Or is that unlikely?

And why would people who work in the system make these comments? Are they all only pretending to be benefits advisors or GPs or work coaches or assessors?

Any suggestions about how things might work differently is labelled evil and any number of "- ists".

But it cannot go on like this. The system is horrible and encourages division.

We are already suffering, did you not read the UN reports on how the U.K. government has been systematically violating our humans rights for over a decade and the U.K. government has simply gone “meh” and shredded the report? How many more hoops of fire do they want us to jump through?

I think the whole disability benefit determination should be given to the NHS consultants. If they sign off, you get PIP, ESA and all that automatically. The consultant can set a review date if recovery or worsening is likely, or true lifetime awards if recovery is impossible. DWP and their private contractors are wasting millions. Divert that money to the NHS to hire more doctors and make it a simple form they fill out and sign. No humiliating lying assessments by ‘medical professionals’ who are often clueless about your disabilities. No decisions by bureaucrats who are not doctors specialising in your disabilities.

@Onnabugeisha

Excellent points about the contracting out of these systems to private companies which by their nature are supposed to turn a profit ….

It should be down to the qualified and experts in the conditions.

What about those being starter jobs or those aimed at people who work for a second income. Teenagers could benefit from stacking shelves in Asda or serving in McDonald's instead of it being a lifelong job. Their are plenty of low skill jobs that pay well and don't require a degree.

YY OP i would put money on the fact that its the same fuckers who were spouting "we are all in this together" when it came to Covid and masks

People who need help absolutely should get benefits. However , I know a professional benefit claimant who chooses not to work , these people give genuine claimants a bad name.

How will that work for people who have been out of the workplace for a long time (either due to being a SAMP or illness)?
I know of people who have been out of the workplace for a very long time, and have now been assessed as fit for work. They can only do these "starter" jobs that you think should be for teens, despite being in their 40s/50s.

I think the whole disability benefit determination should be given to the NHS consultants. If they sign off, you get PIP, ESA and all that automatically. The consultant can set a review date if recovery or worsening is likely, or true lifetime awards if recovery is impossible.

And for disabled people who don't see a consultant?

I think the pressure on the NHS is vast enough just now without adding more.

Something disabled people could benefit from is some method of acknowledgement that doesn't involve a PIP claim.

I agree @actualnamechange

Fwiw I'm chuffed off with jobs etc asking if you're "registered disabled". That's what I was asked about to get accommodations and adjustments.

Other than PIP, there is no register of disabled people.

Agree even Gp's don't have time to write supporting letters for people trying to claim PIP so I very much doubt hospital consultants would get involved. ESA highest rates is pretty automatic for people undergoing certain types of treatment like Chemotherapy or Radiotherapy.

Every disabled person who needs benefits should have a consultant, too many are tossed on the rubbish heap and left with no medical support.

The pressure on the NHS would be less because the hundreds of millions DWP is giving away to private contractors would go to the NHS to hire more consultants who would only need to fill out a simple form. As it is the NHS is having to write LONG reports and letters to DWP to support every PIP claim, and then again for ever ESA WCA. It would be less work, plus funds for more doctors.

I don't know if it should be nhs or dwp making the decision. I'd worry the conflict of interests would sway them in their decision.
we could have an independent body, not some contracted in private sector who make impartial decisions without targets or performance incentives.

Um why do all disabled people need a consultant? My Dd doesn’t need to see a consultant for one of her conditions. It can’t be treated.

Some people are on a 2 year waiting list to see consultants. Do they not get PIP either?

My consultants all wrote full reports to DWP for my PIP. Spine surgery consultant, neurologist, neuro-rehabilitation specialist, and a brain injury specialist psychologist.

It would have been much easier if any one of them could have coordinated with the others (they do anyway) to fill out a single form and sign it for disability benefits.

Instead there’s this huge monster of a labyrinth that DWP has set up that costs far too much, takes to long and comes to the wrong decision far too often.

Every disabled person who needs benefits should have a consultant, too many are tossed on the rubbish heap and left with no medical support

Not every one with a disability needs a consultant.

If you have been partially sighted from birth, for example, why would you have a consultant? Why would you have a consultant if you are missing limbs?

Not all of us need consultants. I was discharged from audiology because nothing can be done. What would be the point of being under them? Yes, my hearing impairments are disabling. But there's no treatment.

That’s just it, we don’t have enough consultants in the NHS. Meanwhile hundreds of millions are being wasted by DWP on something that any consultant should be able to sign off on. There wouldn’t be a conflict of interest, just like of a doctor starts selling opiate prescriptions, they’d get barred for life and put in prison. Do the same if a doctor signs disability forms for money.

Often you are refused PIP if you only have a GP treating you. Especially if it is a mental health disorder. And honestly, even if a consultant only sees you once to sign your form after a GP referral that’s ok too. I just don’t think the government would give GPS the power for this as they complain enough about GPS “abusing” sick notes for short term sickness.

But they could have signed off on a disability for that says no treatment, no recovery for you before discharging you….and then you would get PIP or whatever related to that disability automatically.

You would have had one at some point. At least a paediatrician as a child. Then see one now and then…new advances are made all the time…why not have a consultant that checks on you every few years? Especially with artificial limbs, new eye implants…you could be sitting at home unaware of something that could help and your GP being too overworked to flag you up now that some treatment is possible.

Oh how I wish this was true! Diagnosed with Autism and just left to it.

Some of us have conditions that will never change. Why would we need to see a consultant?